What Difference Does Voltage Level Make to An Atom?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the impact of voltage levels on individual atoms, specifically comparing a copper atom in a wire at a high voltage to a copper atom at ground potential. Participants explore whether the voltage difference affects the atoms themselves or if it is merely an external factor influencing electron behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario involving a copper wire at 10,000 V and a copper plate at 0 V, questioning the difference between the two atoms due to this voltage difference.
  • Another participant suggests that the voltage is external to the electrons and asks for clarification on what this means and where the effect is located.
  • A different participant expresses confusion and seeks clarity on whether there is any difference between the two atoms in terms of their atomic structure or behavior due to the voltage.
  • One participant asserts that there is no difference between the two atoms, stating that potential difference has no local effect at either point and that only local gradients in potential are meaningful.
  • Another participant acknowledges the previous points and suggests moving on to a new question, indicating a shift in focus from the initial query.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the voltage difference has any effect on the atoms in question. There is no consensus reached, as some argue that there is no difference while others seek further clarification on the implications of the voltage.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the concept of voltage and its relationship to atomic behavior without resolving the underlying assumptions about the nature of voltage and its effects on atomic structure.

abrogard
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We could have a copper wire at 10,000 V above a copper plate at 0V.

At the end of the wire, one atom of copper. Beneath it: one atom of copper.

What is the difference between the two atoms because of this voltage difference?

Conventionally the current flows from positive to negative. But we know the electrons flow from negative to positive. So another way to put the question: what is different about the 29 electrons in the base plate rather than the 29 electrons in the copper wire atom?

Or is the voltage - for argument's sake a massive potential of say 20,000V - external to the electrons and something that pushes them? Then what and where?
 
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abrogard said:
Or is the voltage - for argument's sake a massive potential of say 20,000V - external to the electrons and something that pushes them?
That is it. It is external.
Then what and where?
You stipulated it as part of the scenario setup.
 
I don't understand. Can you be clearer? I only stipulated a voltage and the query is what effect that voltage on the atom - meaning within the atom giving rise to a difference between that atom and an atom at zero volts.

So you're saying there's no difference between the two atoms?
 
abrogard said:
I only stipulated a voltage and the query is what effect that voltage on the atom
You asked, [paraphrasing]: "If the voltage is external to the electrons then what is it and where".

And yes, the answer is that there is no difference. Potential difference between two points has no local effect at either point. Only local gradients in the potential are physically meaningful.
 
That's that question satisfied, then. If 'point' can mean 'atom'. So onto the next question. Which should have a new thread I think.

Thank you.
 

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