How exactly does CO2 behave as a greenhouse gas?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of CO2 as a greenhouse gas, specifically focusing on its mechanisms of energy absorption and emission. Participants explore questions related to the kinetic and radiative transfer of energy among CO2 molecules, the implications of energy wavelength, and the concept of saturation in absorption.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster seeks to understand the percentage of CO2 molecules that transfer absorbed energy kinetically versus those that radiate.
  • There is a question about whether all radiating molecules emit lower energy wavelengths than those originally absorbed.
  • The poster inquires if CO2 is opaque to lower energy emissions.
  • A hypothetical scenario is presented regarding the saturation of CO2 and its implications for energy absorption and emission.
  • One participant suggests that CO2 molecules transfer kinetic energy among themselves until it is radiated away.
  • Another participant asserts that all radiating molecules emit lower energy wavelengths.
  • There is uncertainty expressed regarding CO2's opacity to lower energy emissions, depending on frequency.
  • A claim is made that perfect black bodies are not possible, implying that CO2 cannot absorb completely without emitting.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the specifics of energy transfer and emission processes, with no consensus reached on the answers to the original poster's questions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves complex interactions of energy transfer that may depend on various factors, including molecular interactions and frequency of emissions. The concept of saturation is also noted as being logarithmic, complicating the understanding of total absorption versus emission.

falcon32
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Hi everyone,

This is my very first post here, so hi!

I've got a few questions about CO2 that maybe a physics buff can help me out with. I understand the basics about CO2 warming the atmosphere via absorption and re-emission (radiatively or kinetically) of Outgoing Longwave Radiation...but can't find any in-depth details on the mechanics of it.


Conceptually, and considering only EM energy of the proper wavelength to excite CO2 molecules...

1. What percent of CO2 molecules transfer their absorbed energy kinetically, and what percent radiate?

2. Of the molecules that do radiate, what percent of these radiate a wavelength with lower energy than the one originally absorbed?

3. If lower energy is emitted, is CO2 opaque with respect to it?

These questions bring me to...

4. If CO2 is not saturated, would it absorb completely, and never emit (black when viewed in absorption bandwidth)? That is, below an effective saturation point, do we get total conversion into kinetic, not photonic?

I understand by Beer-Lambert that there is no true technical, 'saturation' point because of the logarithmic relationship, but for the sake of argument, (to help me grasp the subject) pretend there is.

Thanks, appreciate the help!
 
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So far, one hundred and forty-two people have viewed this post. Of these, zero have replied.

It seems I have found a question no one is capable of answering. :P
 
http://www.ess.uci.edu/~prather/IPCC/2001IPCC_Chap04-PratherEhhalt.pdf

You might want to look at the above. Also Google "greenhouse gases chemistry".

I suspect that you got no responses, since it takes a specialist in this area to answer your questions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I will try to give some answers.

falcon32 said:
1. What percent of CO2 molecules transfer their absorbed energy kinetically, and what percent radiate?

Kinetically? You mean between each other? They transfer the kinetic energy between each other until it is all radiated away.

falcon32 said:
2. Of the molecules that do radiate, what percent of these radiate a wavelength with lower energy than the one originally absorbed?

100%

falcon32 said:
3. If lower energy is emitted, is CO2 opaque with respect to it?

Not sure, depends on the frequency.

falcon32 said:
4. If CO2 is not saturated, would it absorb completely, and never emit (black when viewed in absorption bandwidth)? That is, below an effective saturation point, do we get total conversion into kinetic, not photonic?

Perfect Black Bodies are not possible, so no.
 

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