How long does it take to heat a vessel?

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SUMMARY

This discussion focuses on calculating the time required to heat a closed vessel of water, utilizing specific heat capacity, density, and heat capacity values. The user employs the formula t = C(ΔT)/power, where C is the heat capacity, ΔT is the temperature difference, and power is the heating element's rating (25 kW). The conversation evolves to include Newton's law of cooling, leading to the differential equation (ρV c + C)(dT/dt) = Q̇ - k(T - Ta), where ρ is the water density, V is the volume, c is the specific heat capacity, and k is the heat loss coefficient. The correct approach involves understanding thermal inertia and the heat transfer dynamics between the vessel and its surroundings.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of specific heat capacity (4184 J kg^-1 K^-1)
  • Knowledge of Newton's law of cooling
  • Familiarity with differential equations in thermal dynamics
  • Basic principles of heat transfer and thermal conductance
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation and application of the differential equation (ρV c + C)(dT/dt) = Q̇ - k(T - Ta)
  • Learn about thermal conductance and how to calculate the k value for different geometries
  • Explore the Laplace transform method for solving ordinary differential equations
  • Investigate the effects of ambient temperature on heating dynamics in closed systems
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in thermodynamics, mechanical engineering, and physics, particularly those involved in heat transfer analysis and thermal system design.

  • #31
Modrisco89 said:
I think I finally got it, I'll shoot myself if this is wrong:

$$T(t) = \frac{\dot{Q}+kT_a+CT_0}{k}(1-e^{\frac{-kt}{C}}$$
Get your gun out. I get $$T=T_0+\left[\frac{\dot{Q}}{k}+(T_a-T_0)\right](1-e^{-\frac{kt}{C}})$$
 
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  • #32
Modrisco89 said:
I think I finally got it, I'll shoot myself if this is wrong:

$$T(t) = \frac{\dot{Q}+kT_a+CT_0}{k}(1-e^{\frac{-kt}{C}}$$
Chestermiller said:
Get your gun out. I get $$T=T_0+\left[\frac{\dot{Q}}{k}+(T_a-T_0)\right](1-e^{-\frac{kt}{C}})$$
Oh man, definitely getting the gun, assuming that the laplace transform method is illegal for that DE? That's what I used perhaps that wasn't good practice

I was told by lecturer that It can solve any DE
 
  • #33
Modrisco89 said:
Oh man, definitely getting the gun, assuming that the laplace transform method is illegal for that DE? That's what I used perhaps that wasn't good practice

I was told by lecturer that It can solve any DE
Certainly Laplae Transform can handle that equation.
 
  • #34
Chestermiller said:
Certainly Laplae Transform can handle that equation.

Must be my maths is the major issue here, listen thanks so much for your help, I'm coming with realistic values on excel so it's looking good, I took the surface area of the tank and multiplied it by the thermal conductility of air and it's working out alright
 
  • #35
Modrisco89 said:
Must be my maths is the major issue here, listen thanks so much for your help, I'm coming with realistic values on excel so it's looking good, I took the surface area of the tank and multiplied it by the thermal conductility of air and it's working out alright
The surface area times the thermal conductivity of air does not have the proper units.
 
  • #36
Looks like I'm not out tench yet, so I'm assuming it should be in watts per kelvin for the k value, thermal conductance of air perhaps?
 
  • #37
I found kA/L

So k = air thermal conductance and A = surface area of tank, what would L be?
 
  • #38
Modrisco89 said:
Looks like I'm not out tench yet, so I'm assuming it should be in watts per kelvin for the k value, thermal conductance of air perhaps?
Start with a value of k equal to the surface area times 10 ##\frac{W}{m^2.C}##.
 
  • #39
Chestermiller said:
Start with a value of k equal to the surface area times 10 ##\frac{W}{m^2.C}##.

That's perfect; my values are coming out longer than the original equation I had for time, thank very much for all the help and sorry for my maths
 
  • #40
Can I ask one question, when you solved that DE, what were your initial conditions? I assumed it to be T(0) would it be something else? like k(Ta-To)?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #41
Modrisco89 said:
Can I ask one question, when you solved that DE, what were your initial conditions? I assumed it to be T(0) would it be something else? like k(Ta-To)?
The initial condition is ##T=T_0## at time t = 0.
 
  • #42
Modrisco89 said:
Can I ask one question, when you solved that DE, what were your initial conditions? I assumed it to be T(0) would it be something else? like T(0)-Ta?
Chestermiller said:
The initial condition is ##T=T_0## at time t = 0.
Ya I thought that made sense, I'll have to double triple check my maths and find out why the LTM is not working for me, thanks

Marking as solved
 

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