How long does it take to heat a vessel?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the time required to heat a closed vessel of water, considering factors such as specific heat capacity, heat capacity of the vessel, and power rating of the heating element. Participants are exploring the impact of ambient temperature on the heating process and how to incorporate it into their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to use a formula involving heat capacity and power to estimate heating time, while also considering Newton's law of cooling to account for ambient temperature. Some participants question how to model the simultaneous heat gain from the heating element and heat loss to the environment.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, raising questions about the correct formulation of differential equations and the assumptions needed for heat loss. There is an ongoing exploration of different interpretations and approaches, with some guidance provided on the need to consider thermal inertia and the correct form of the differential equation.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of constraints regarding the assumptions about heat loss being negligible and the initial temperature values, which may affect the calculations. Participants are also discussing the need for constants related to heat loss to be defined for accurate modeling.

  • #31
Modrisco89 said:
I think I finally got it, I'll shoot myself if this is wrong:

$$T(t) = \frac{\dot{Q}+kT_a+CT_0}{k}(1-e^{\frac{-kt}{C}}$$
Get your gun out. I get $$T=T_0+\left[\frac{\dot{Q}}{k}+(T_a-T_0)\right](1-e^{-\frac{kt}{C}})$$
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Modrisco89 said:
I think I finally got it, I'll shoot myself if this is wrong:

$$T(t) = \frac{\dot{Q}+kT_a+CT_0}{k}(1-e^{\frac{-kt}{C}}$$
Chestermiller said:
Get your gun out. I get $$T=T_0+\left[\frac{\dot{Q}}{k}+(T_a-T_0)\right](1-e^{-\frac{kt}{C}})$$
Oh man, definitely getting the gun, assuming that the laplace transform method is illegal for that DE? That's what I used perhaps that wasn't good practice

I was told by lecturer that It can solve any DE
 
  • #33
Modrisco89 said:
Oh man, definitely getting the gun, assuming that the laplace transform method is illegal for that DE? That's what I used perhaps that wasn't good practice

I was told by lecturer that It can solve any DE
Certainly Laplae Transform can handle that equation.
 
  • #34
Chestermiller said:
Certainly Laplae Transform can handle that equation.

Must be my maths is the major issue here, listen thanks so much for your help, I'm coming with realistic values on excel so it's looking good, I took the surface area of the tank and multiplied it by the thermal conductility of air and it's working out alright
 
  • #35
Modrisco89 said:
Must be my maths is the major issue here, listen thanks so much for your help, I'm coming with realistic values on excel so it's looking good, I took the surface area of the tank and multiplied it by the thermal conductility of air and it's working out alright
The surface area times the thermal conductivity of air does not have the proper units.
 
  • #36
Looks like I'm not out tench yet, so I'm assuming it should be in watts per kelvin for the k value, thermal conductance of air perhaps?
 
  • #37
I found kA/L

So k = air thermal conductance and A = surface area of tank, what would L be?
 
  • #38
Modrisco89 said:
Looks like I'm not out tench yet, so I'm assuming it should be in watts per kelvin for the k value, thermal conductance of air perhaps?
Start with a value of k equal to the surface area times 10 ##\frac{W}{m^2.C}##.
 
  • #39
Chestermiller said:
Start with a value of k equal to the surface area times 10 ##\frac{W}{m^2.C}##.

That's perfect; my values are coming out longer than the original equation I had for time, thank very much for all the help and sorry for my maths
 
  • #40
Can I ask one question, when you solved that DE, what were your initial conditions? I assumed it to be T(0) would it be something else? like k(Ta-To)?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #41
Modrisco89 said:
Can I ask one question, when you solved that DE, what were your initial conditions? I assumed it to be T(0) would it be something else? like k(Ta-To)?
The initial condition is ##T=T_0## at time t = 0.
 
  • #42
Modrisco89 said:
Can I ask one question, when you solved that DE, what were your initial conditions? I assumed it to be T(0) would it be something else? like T(0)-Ta?
Chestermiller said:
The initial condition is ##T=T_0## at time t = 0.
Ya I thought that made sense, I'll have to double triple check my maths and find out why the LTM is not working for me, thanks

Marking as solved
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
25
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
23
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
6K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
811
Replies
6
Views
1K