How many different velocities for this rotational mechanical system?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the number of different velocities in a rotational mechanical system involving multiple masses, springs, and dampers. Participants are exploring the equations of motion and the implications of various velocities within the system.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the answer key stating there are only 4 velocities, proposing that there should be 5 due to the J3 mass potentially having its own velocity.
  • Another participant suggests that the springs and dampers couple the masses, indicating three linear velocities and one angular velocity, but acknowledges that other velocities along the springs may not count for the question.
  • A different participant notes that the velocities between certain components (K1 and D1, K2 and the combination of D2 and K3) differ from the velocities at the masses (J1, J2, J3), supporting the idea of considering 5 velocities.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of the velocity at specific points (e.g., K1) for understanding the equations of motion, while also discussing the connections between the masses and how they affect velocity considerations.
  • Another participant agrees that the two springs can be treated as one with a combined spring constant, but highlights the complexity introduced by the damper's attachment and the need to determine which velocities are significant for analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the number of velocities to consider, with some supporting the idea of 5 velocities while others maintain that only 4 are necessary. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact number of velocities in the system.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the analysis may depend on specific assumptions about the system's configuration and the significance of various velocities, which are not fully resolved in the discussion.

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Homework Statement


I need to write the equations of motion for the mechanical system below. So I need to know how many velocities there are in the system, the answer key says there's only 4 but shouldn't there be 5? I am unsure if the J3 mass has it's own velocity from the point between K_2 and the combination of D_2 and K_3.

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



I have marked the places I believed there is a different velocity in blue. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Homework Statement

 

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Welcome to PF;
I'd have said that the springs and dampers just describe the coupling between the masses ... you have three masses for three linear velocities and one angular velocity ... you can track velocities of lots of other points too ... i.e. the velocities along the lengths of the springs would all be different ... but they won't all count for the purposes of this question.
 
Hi Simon,

Thanks for replying. Just wondering where is the angular velocity located? My professor said the velocity between K1 and D1 is different than the velocity at the masses J1 and J2 and similarly the velocity between K_2 and the combination of D_2 and K_3 is different than masses J2 and J3. So would that not mean there are 5 velocities I need to consider?
 
attachment.php?attachmentid=59156&d=1369959477.jpg

I read T1 (far left) as a torque.

The velocity at the point you drew the arrow on K1 s certaily different from that for J2 or J1 - and it is probably useful for figuring the equation of motion.

Notice that J2 and J3 are connected by a single spring - while J2 and J1 are only indirectly connected through D1?

Granted D2 is connected to the middle of the spring... but the velocity of that point depends on the velocities of J2 and J3 directly so I can see why it could be ignored.

If you like - include it in your analysis and see what happens.
 
I read T1 (far left) as a torque.

The velocity at the point you drew the arrow on K1 s certaily different from that for J2 or J1 - and it is probably useful for figuring the equation of motion.

Notice that J2 and J3 are connected by a single spring - while J2 and J1 are only indirectly connected through D1?

Granted D2 is connected to the middle of the spring... but the velocity of that point depends on the velocities of J2 and J3 directly so I can see why it could be ignored.

If you like - include it in your analysis and see what happens.

Is that single spring between J2 and J3 you mentioned, the spring of K2+K3?
 
That's right - the two springs would be treated as just the one with a combined K ... the wrinkle is where the damper is attached.

You could divide any of the other springs into equivalent coupled spring systems - and then track the velocity of the join. The trick is figuring which ones are important. If in doubt, include it - it will either vanish in the math or it won't.
 
Okay got it, thank you for all your help!
 

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