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How to find a suitable value for a neutral resistance?

  1. Mar 30, 2017 #1
    1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data.

    An 11kv motor is fed by cables from a transformer via switchgrear, having a phase impedence of 0.3 + j0.3 ohm. The earth return path to the transformer neutral has a resistance of 0.42 ohm. Determine a suitable value of neutral resistance if the voltage rise at the motor in the event of an earth fault at the motor is not to exceed 430 v

    Hi there folks!

    I would be very grateful for some suggestions in relation to the question above. I have asked my tutor for information on what exactly is being asked. The course material is vague and this was my best attempt at solving the problem. When I sent the attached pdf to my tutor they just replied :

    Neutral resistor = Resistance path - 0.72

    To me this seems too easy and also doesn't tie in with the information given in the associated lessons etc.

    Maybe I'm on the right path but I'm just a bit unsure.

    I would really appreciate any ideas :)

    Neil
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 4, 2017 #2
    Thanks for the thread! This is an automated courtesy bump. Sorry you aren't generating responses at the moment. Do you have any further information, come to any new conclusions or is it possible to reword the post? The more details the better.
     
  4. Apr 4, 2017 #3
    I think you need to start with a diagram showing the impedances.

    A transformer on the 11 kV side is normally a wye (or star) connection.

    The neutral resistor is connected from the neutral of the transformer to ground (earth).

    Write the equations for the fault current with the neutral resistor and then for the voltage rise at the motor.

    I'm not sure what you 430/0.72 represents. Did you mean 0.78 instead?
     
  5. Apr 8, 2017 #4
    Hi there Magoo,

    Thanks a million for the reply to my post :)

    There is an example in my lesson notes and if I was to follow the process it would go as follows ( using the values given in the question ).

    Impedance of cables feeding the motor and the earth return path to the transformer is :

    Z = 0.72 + j0.3 which gives us 0.78 ohms

    In the event of an earth fault at the motor given this Impedance value we will have a Fault Current of 6350/.78 = 8141 amps

    The cables that feed the motor from the transformer have an Impedance of .424 ohms

    We need our fault current to be reduced to 430/.424 = 1014.15 amps

    So ........

    6350/1014.15 gives us a resistance or 6.26 ohms

    What I'm thinking I need to do now is take our original 0.78 ohms which is the Impedance of the original system and take that from our newly found figure of 6.26 ohms to give us a value of 5.48 ohms.

    A neutral earthing resistor with a value of 5.48 ohms needs to be added to the system.

    This is what the information in the lesson would lead me to think anyway.

    Does this make sense?

    Neil
     
  6. Apr 8, 2017 #5
    Where did you get the value of 0.424? You need to show your work.

    Since you didn't sketch a one-line diagram, see if this agrees with what you had in mind:

    upload_2017-4-8_15-48-51.png
     
  7. Apr 8, 2017 #6
    Hi again Magoo,

    Apologies for not including a drawing. I will hand draw out one tomorrow and post it on the thread here. I need to look at my notes to see if your drawing is similar to what I have.

    The 0.424 ohms from above was the impedance of the cables from the transformer to the motor. The question tells me that this section has an Impedance of :

    Z = 0.3 + j0.3. The square root of 0.3^2 + 0.3^2 is equal to 0.424. If we have a current of 1014.15 then the voltage rise at the motor will be R x I ( 0.424 x 1014.15 = 430 volts )
     
  8. Apr 8, 2017 #7
    Your 0.424 ohms represents the cable impedance only. Under a ground fault, the fault path includes the cable impedance plus the earth return. It looks like you neglected that.

    It also looks like you neglected the reactance when you came up with 6.26 ohms.
     
  9. Apr 13, 2017 #8
    Please see attached photo for the impedance diagram which shows the system prior to the addition of the neutral earthing resistor.

    2017-04-13 09.48.21.jpg

    The figures that I've written out are relate to fault conditions that are set out in the question.

    On the right hand side I have 3419 V which is the potential difference from the motor area and the transformer. In order to reduce this potential difference to the 430 V asked for in the question I calculated that we need to reduce the current to 1024 amps (6350/.42).

    We have a phase voltage of 6350 which I'm dividing by the 1024 and this gives me 6.2 ohms.

    This 6.2 ohms will be the Impedance of the system with the neutral earthing resistor included so then to find the resistance value I then go down this route.

    Z^2 = R^2 + X^2

    6.2^2 = R^2 + 0.3^2

    R^2 = 38.35

    R = 6.19 ohms

    From our original system we had a resistance of 0.72 ohms so I believe the value for the neutral earthing resistor is the 6.19 - 0.72 = 5.47 ohms

    The information in is both vague and limited at times in the notes I have for the distance learning course which I'm doing.

    The process I've used above is the same as that which I have been shown in my notes. The problem with the course notes is that it does the problem and gives the the final answer as an earth path impedance. I have found that to be 6.2 ohms ( using the method in my notes ) but as the questions specifically asks for a '' suitable value of neutral resistance ''

    My apologies for the delay in replying to your last reply. I'm having trouble with my Laptop :( The appreciate you taking the time to try and point me in the right direction.

    Neil
     
  10. Apr 13, 2017 #9
    Hi there Magoo,

    It seems that my last post seems to be the correct way of going about the problem. I won't know for sure as I've to submit my work tomorrow but I'll let you know. Thanks again for your help to date!

    Neil
     
  11. Apr 13, 2017 #10
    w/o the neutral resistor

    Zphase = 0.3 + j 0.3

    Zearth return = 0.42

    For a phase to earth fault, Z = 0.72 + j 0.3 |Z| = 0.78 ohms



    Isc = V / Z = 6350 / 0.78 = 8141 A



    Vacross motor = 6350 V



    With neutral resistor

    Want Vacross motor = 430

    Need to reduce the sc current to

    430/6350 * 6350/0.78 = 551.3 A



    To do so requires an impedance of 11.52 ohms



    You already have 0.72 + j 0.3 or 0.78 ohms



    Need to solve for R that results in an impedance of 11.52 ohms

    I just took 0.72 + R + j 0.3 and tried a few values for R that results in a Z of 11.52



    I get an R of around 11 ohms


    You could also just neglect the X term and it will be a bit easier.
     
  12. Apr 13, 2017 #11
    Neil,

    Good luck tomorrow and please post what you find out.
     
  13. Apr 14, 2017 #12
    Will do and thanks again for your time to date :)
     
  14. Apr 20, 2017 #13
    Hi there Magoo,

    I just got my results back from the assignment. I submitted my effort on post no 8 and got it correct. I got a distinction on the assignment so I'm well chuffed. Only another 100 to go lol ( well it fell like 100 anyway! )

    Thanks for taking the time to work with me on the site here!

    Neil
     
  15. Apr 20, 2017 #14
    That is terrific! Your perseverance paid off.
     
  16. Apr 20, 2017 #15
    It sure did. Thanks again :smile:
     
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