How to find that the universe is expanding from general theory of relativity

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding how the expansion of the universe can be derived from the general theory of relativity. Participants explore the theoretical implications of general relativity, historical context, and observational evidence related to the universe's expansion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that general relativity does not inherently predict an expanding universe, noting that the expansion was discovered through astronomical observations of galaxies moving away from Earth.
  • Others argue that the original equations of general relativity allow for either an expanding or contracting universe, and that Einstein's introduction of the cosmological constant was an attempt to align the theory with the then-believed static universe.
  • A participant highlights that without the cosmological constant, the Einstein Field Equations (EFE) do not permit static solutions with a non-zero stress-energy tensor, implying that the universe must be either expanding or contracting if matter is present.
  • Another participant mentions that even with a non-zero cosmological constant, a static universe is unstable and would lead to either expansion or contraction if perturbed.
  • There is a contention regarding the assertion that one cannot derive the expansion of the universe solely from general relativity, as the observational evidence from Hubble and Slipher is cited as crucial to understanding the universe's expansion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether general relativity alone can predict the expansion of the universe, with some emphasizing the role of observational evidence and others focusing on theoretical implications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which general relativity can be used to derive the universe's expansion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on the historical context of general relativity, the implications of the cosmological constant, and the relationship between theoretical predictions and observational evidence. There are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made about the universe's state and the definitions of terms used in the discussion.

manvirsingh
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
1 how to find that the universe is expanding from general theory of relativity

2 how to apply general theory of relativity to find that the universe is expanding
 
Physics news on Phys.org
How are (1) and (2) different?
 
manvirsingh said:
1 how to find that the universe is expanding from general theory of relativity

2 how to apply general theory of relativity to find that the universe is expanding


As far as I know general relativity doesn't predict that the Universe is expanding. The expansion was discovered by astronomers. Galaxies in all directions are for the most part moving away from the Earth, and the farther away the faster they move. So the Universe is expanding.

It is NOT however expanding into empty space. Every part of the Universe has more or less the same number of galaxies as every other part. They are getting farther apart: space is stretching so that there is more of it while the amount of matter stays the same.
 
The original equations of general relativity implied either an expanding or contracting universe...Einstein tried to make his formulation match what he thought was observed at the time, a static universe, by introducing the cosmological constant.

More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant#History
 
how to apply "The original equations of general relativity"
 
manvirsingh said:
how to apply "The original equations of general relativity"

I think what Naty1 meant was that if you take the Einstein Field Equation without a cosmological constant, which was how it was originally formulated, there are no solutions that admit a static universe; put another way, there are no static solutions with a non-zero stress-energy tensor, so if there is matter in the universe (which we believe there is :wink:), then according to the original EFE the universe cannot be static; it must be either expanding or contracting. There are other reasons to believe that the universe is not contracting, so the original EFE basically predicts that the universe is expanding. At the time, the universe was believed to be static, so Einstein added the cosmological constant term to the EFE to allow static solutions with non-zero stress-energy.
 
Even with non-zero cc a static universe is not possible b/c this solution corresponds is unstable (like a saddle-point); any small perturbation of such a solution would either create expansion or contraction.
 
...it must be either expanding or contracting.

That is exactly what I meant...and post #7 adds the final description...so

how to find that the universe is expanding from general theory of relativity

you can't...or that's not the way it happened...the expanding (rather than contracting) universe was shown by the observations of Hubble and Slipher.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
5K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
4K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 45 ·
2
Replies
45
Views
10K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K