How to "power-up" a steel body suit?

  • #1

Main Question or Discussion Point

So, basically... Since I have my own place/office, tools, machines and everything I need. I've been working on a steel suit just for fun, as a hobby. Based on the Iron Man superhero, and I want it as my Halloween costume this year. My idea is to build it gorgeous, and I'm on that at the moment. It won't be something ugly and cheap, trust me.

So my question is, how can I make it move with me inside? I'm not planning on making it fly, don't worry, that's impossible. But what kind of system/power should I use to turn it on with me inside the suit? I just want to walk, move my arms and torso, lift my knees relatively freely and bend over to grab whatever. And of course, be able to grab a drink.

I already took care of the rest, like how to rotate my hand/wrist, the basic mechanics and stuff.. that's to basic. So what do you think? I was thinking on hydraulic systems, using the back and the front of the suit to hide and cover it. Or perhaps a small hybrid engine? I have no knowledge on that, I read a couple of things though.

The suit as a whole, might weight around 200-250 lbs of steel. I just need to power-up the suit.



Thanks.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #3
Investigate "powered exoskeleton". It is a tricky engineering challenge even if all you want to do is compensate for the weight of the suit.
eg. http://spectrum.ieee.org/video/robotics/military-robots/darpa-tests-batterypowered-exoskeletons-on-real-soldiers
Thanks Simon, I just took a look to the link you posted and seems pretty interesting. Although, seems that's nearly impossible to build for myself alone, this researchers took over 3 years straight to develop this "exoskeleton" to compensate the average weight of a single person with clothes on. I don't think this "exoskeleton" can power up this suit in any means.. I only need the energy/power to be able to lift my arms inside, walk freely, bend over and sit down.. Something "big" or "small" enough to be hidden on the back of the suit and/or the chest. I have no knowledge on that area.
 
  • #4
Drakkith
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I don't think the issue is about powering the suit, but about controlling it. And that's no simple matter. That's probably the main reason it took the researchers 3 years to get as far as they did, though I admit that mostly a guess on my end.
 
  • #5
Simon Bridge
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Exactly, powering the suit is not the issue - it's getting the fine control to work properly - meaning smoothly or at all.
 
  • #6
Exactly, powering the suit is not the issue - it's getting the fine control to work properly - meaning smoothly or at all.
I don't think the issue is about powering the suit, but about controlling it. And that's no simple matter. That's probably the main reason it took the researchers 3 years to get as far as they did, though I admit that mostly a guess on my end.
So, basically.. There's nothing I could use to achieve the goal desired? Since I don't have much knowledge in engines, I don't have nothing but clues such as a actuators, servomechanisms, hybrid engine, hydraulic system and now, exosuit, or maybe a combination of any of those. Perhaps a type of homemade exosuit. Suficient to make me move inside the suit. Not planning on anything else but that.


I'll be the soul of the party if I get this done! And maybe I could even assist to the comi-con convention. I'm really into this suit, I just need knowledge I'm lacking at the moment.
 
  • #7
Vanadium 50
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You can ask again, but the answer is unlikely to change. The issue is not power, but control.
 
  • #8
You can ask again, but the answer is unlikely to change. The issue is not power, but control.
Thanks for your answer man! Yeah, I think I misused the words. As you say, the real word is "control".. What kind of system or engine or whatever could I use to control the suit easily.
 
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  • #9
berkeman
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I'll be the soul of the party if I get this done! And maybe I could even assist to the comi-con convention. I'm really into this suit, I just need knowledge I'm lacking at the moment.
I'd suggest that you start with a basic unpowered exoskeleton for your first year's project. That simplifies things a lot, will still be fun, and makes it a do-able project for this year's Halloween party (and ComiCon, or whatever). Then, build on that for next year, and add some basic battery powered strength boosting to your second exoskeleton. You can always add cosmetic bits to each exoskeleton, like a helmet and gloves, boots, etc.

Then maybe the next year you will have learned enough to do an Arduino-based or some other intelligent controlled heavier exoskeleton with a heavier covering, or some other fun project. Stay safe and smart! :smile:
 
  • #10
I'd suggest that you start with a basic unpowered exoskeleton for your first year's project. That simplifies things a lot, will still be fun, and makes it a do-able project for this year's Halloween party (and ComiCon, or whatever). Then, build on that for next year, and add some basic battery powered strength boosting to your second exoskeleton. You can always add cosmetic bits to each exoskeleton, like a helmet and gloves, boots, etc.

Then maybe the next year you will have learned enough to do an Arduino-based or some other intelligent controlled heavier exoskeleton with a heavier covering, or some other fun project. Stay safe and smart! :smile:
Thank you, that pretty much what I was thinking. That's why the suit is on stand by at the moment, I started building the blueprints and building the forearm from cardboard, but I stopped. Since as you're saying, I first need the "engine", in this case seems it'll be an exosuit. After having that, I could start working the suit around it.
 
  • #11
berkeman
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Nice. Do you have access to a metal welder? That will help you a lot in your work on an exoskeleton. And a sheet metal break and a shear? You might want to take a metal working class at a local community college, if that is a resource near you. :smile:
 
  • #12
DaveC426913
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The movements of the human body are very complex. Almost every joint can move freely in two, if not three, dimensions simulateously.

Just think about the shoulder for a moment. It can go out/in, forward/back and rotate - simultaneously. How will you activate those motions, let alone control the feedback on them? Even doing 1 dimension will be tricky. How will you do it in 2 or 3?

What if they don't deactivate flawlessly? I fear you'd dislocate your shoulder!

Not that I want to be a party-pooper. I am a big big fan of outrageously complex costumes. Matter of fact, it's already getting late in the season for startring on this year's Hallowe'en.
 
  • #13
DaveC426913
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Is there a reason to make it out of metal? Other than the extreme cool factor? What if you made the prototype shapes, then vacu-formed them out of plastic? It is very important to keep weight to a minimum in such an outfit.
 
  • #14
Nice. Do you have access to a metal welder? That will help you a lot in your work on an exoskeleton. And a sheet metal break and a shear? You might want to take a metal working class at a local community college, if that is a resource near you. :smile:
Yeah, I have everything mentioned above and a lot more in my office. I have a bit of knowledge with this kind of tools. I own them all, but the welder, I don't own him. And he's really good,.. I was thinking on getting in a local class actually, and I will though. I highly doubt the welder will have any knowledge on exoskeletons though.
 
  • #15
berkeman
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Not that I want to be a party-pooper. I am a big big fan of outrageously complex costumes. Matter of fact, it's already getting late in the season for startring on this year's Hallowe'en.
[hijack]This means nothing without pictures [/hijack]
 
  • #16
Is there a reason to make it out of metal? Other than the extreme cool factor? What if you made the prototype shapes, then vacu-formed them out of plastic? It is very important to keep weight to a minimum in such an outfit.
The movements of the human body are very complex. Almost every joint can move freely in two, if not three, dimensions simulateously.

Just think about the shoulder for a moment. It can go out/in, forward/back and rotate - simultaneously. How will you activate those motions, let alone control the feedback on them? Even doing 1 dimension will be tricky. How will you do it in 2 or 3?

What if they don't deactivate flawlessly? I fear you'd dislocate your shoulder!

Not that I want to be a party-pooper. I am a big big fan of outrageously complex costumes. Matter of fact, it's already getting late in the season for startring on this year's Hallowe'en.
I'm planning on making the mechanics smart enough to prevent any terrible thing to happen such as a shoulder dislocation, fingers and whatever that could injure myself. The good thing is I'm now planning on using the suit for a battle. I want to do ot of metal for the only reason that it is a personal challenge. I started up with cardboard, then I'll work with aluminium and at the end, steel. Not to thick though. I'm also padding the suit all over on the inside, so myself is not in contact with steel, cables and stuff.
 
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  • #17
DaveC426913
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[hijack]This means nothing without pictures [/hijack]
Yeah. Pix are long gone.. :(

I made a costume based on a friend's dream. He dreamt that I was Dave - Fireman of the Future. Hip-mounted jetpacks for getting into and out of fires, and a disintegrator pistol (what better way to put out a fire than to disintegrate whatever's burning?) I added a working grappling hook, a belt pack, shoulder lights, and, of course, a bona fide (retired) fireman's helmet (which I still have) with crosshair sights.

Another year I made a dragon suit. (Picture iron man but with teeth, wings and tail control surfaces). The wings actually deployed and retracted. Man, that was fun to work out the hinges going between laying flat on my back to an eight foot span.
 
  • #18
Yeah. Pix are long gone.. :(

I made a costume based on a friend's dream. He dreamt that I was Dave - Fireman of the Future. Hip-mounted jetpacks for getting into and out of fires, and a disintegrator pistol (what better way to put out a fire than to disintegrate whatever's burning?) I added a working grappling hook, a belt pack, shoulder lights, and, of course, a bona fide (retired) fireman's helmet (which I still have) with crosshair sights.

Another year I made a dragon suit. (Picture iron man but with teeth, wings and tail control surfaces). The wings actually deployed and retracted. Man, that was fun to work out the hinges going between laying flat on my back to an eight foot span.
Hard to picture that:woot:! What material was it? And how did you managed to control it once inside the suit? I was thinking, and regardless of the suit weight (250 lbs at most), whatever "engine" I use to "control" it once wearing it, it won't be lifting those 250 lbs in any means. Realistically, I just need to be able to walk and lift my arms freely, how much can the whole arm weight? 50 lbs? at most... The force needed to lift the arm or to "flex" my forearm to 90º is minimal, at any point I'll need to lift 250 lbs, that's just the suit as a whole. I was actually even thinking of pulleys! Perhaps a good set of pulleys inside the suit placed on the right place and being as small or as big as needed will make the work, or at least 50% of it. The rest might be handle by anything else, maybe actuators or hydraulic fluid.
 
  • #19
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The good thing is I'm now planning on using the suit for a battle. I want to do ot of metal for the only reason that it is a personal challenge. I started up with cardboard, then I'll work with aluminium and at the end, steel. Not to thick though. I'm also padding the suit all over on the inside, so myself is not in contact with steel, cables and stuff.
This becomes quite challenging on several levels quickly. With added padding there is also added thermal load for you. Thus a larger suit with more power to carry around the AC gear also. There is a Canadian experimenter who is obsessed with a suit primarily for grizzly bear research. I would suggest a web search or at least YouTube for Troy Hurtubise. This will give you lots of entertaining insight into a armored suit. Some of his videos are up to 10 years old as he has been at it for a while.

For a first year costume I would go with composite or sheet aluminum to allow movement with your own power. Then progress as possible with more time.
 
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  • #20
Vanadium 50
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Before you get too far ahead of yourself, think about a simpler problem: a glove. How many motors will you need? (You might get an idea by how many muscles there are) How many sensors? How do you plan on limiting motion? It wouldn't do if the glove broke the hand inside it. How many lines of code do you think this will take? How will you debug it without breaking the hand inside it?

This is a much, much simpler problem than what you propose, since you don't have to worry about balance.
 
  • #21
This becomes quite challenging on several levels quickly. With added padding there is also added thermal load for you. Thus a larger suit with more power to carry around the AC gear also. There is a Canadian experimenter who is obsessed with a suit primarily for grizzly bear research. I would suggest a web search or at least YouTube for Troy Hurtubise. This will give you lots of entertaining insight into a armored suit. Some of his videos are up to 10 years old as he has been at it for a while.

For a first year costume I would go with composite or sheet aluminum to allow movement with your own power. Then progress as possible with more time.

Thanks for your answer fella, that idea looks great. Someone above said something similar and as I said before, I'm first building it from cardboard, then aluminum and if everything went well with the aluminum, I'll start working on steel. The good part is that I'm actually building up the instructions for the suit, they doesn't exist, so by the end of the cardboard suit which I already started, but left on stand at the moment because I didn't know what to use as an engine on the end product... It'll take me around 1 month to complete the cardboard suit, since I'm getting the measurements right (not just for me but for anyone else once I finish the suit). I'm building the instructions, I might finish the aluminum suit in 1 week since I'll already have the instructions done. If someone wanna build this from titanium it doesn't matter. The instructions will be there already set for anyone. Also, the thermal thing is not really an issue for me, in the worse scenario I'll just take off the suit and rest maybe 10 minutes and then get it on again.

In the meantime, I'll check out that experimenter you're telling me about.
 
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  • #22
Before you get too far ahead of yourself, think about a simpler problem: a glove. How many motors will you need? (You might get an idea by how many muscles there are) How many sensors? How do you plan on limiting motion? It wouldn't do if the glove broke the hand inside it. How many lines of code do you think this will take? How will you debug it without breaking the hand inside it?

This is a much, much simpler problem than what you propose, since you don't have to worry about balance.
Thanks! I'm not really planning on using motors in the glove, that will be completely mechanical.. I might use a basic pulley work attached anywhere from the forearm all the way to each finger, it's not that hard to limit finger motions, it's all about building the right pieces and taking care of security to prevent that.. Plus, that area might work with a flexible "tube" of plastic on each finger to give fingers the ability to flex.


Something like this, look at the fingers.
maxresdefault.jpg
 
  • #23
DaveC426913
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Also, the thermal thing is not really an issue for me, in the worse scenario I'll just take off the suit and rest maybe 10 minutes and then get it on again.
Oh no you won't! :wink: I guarantee the suit will take an hour or more to get on and get wired up (every motion sensor has to be calibrated as you assemble), and 20 minutes to take off again.

If you're only half way through the donning process when you start to overheat, you have a suit that can't be donned.
 
  • #24
Oh no you won't! :wink: I guarantee the suit will take an hour or more to get on and get wired up (every motion sensor has to be calibrated as you assemble), and 20 minutes to take off again.

If you're only half way through the donning process when you start to overheat, you have a suit that can't be donned.
oh!.. Well.. the padding won't be to thick, just enough to keep the wires and steel away from touching my skin. I just want to feel it smooth on the inside and not a bunch of wires and metal, plus I don't wanna get pinch. I'm still investigating on what to you for the basic movements. And I thing I'll get into retractable cables, pulleys and gears. I believe I don't need any kind of engine to make basic movements with the suit on.. Also, I'll build it on a way I could get it on and off easily.
 
  • #25
DaveC426913
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I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how you will activate motion. Presumably, every possible freedom of motion will have a counterpart pressure pad in the right place.

For example, lifting your forearm will press against a pad on the inside of the armour, activating the suit to lift its own arm. Those pressure pads will have to be carefully calibrated with your own body. You'll have a heckuva time getting them to trigger consistently.

I suspect what will hapoen is you'll have to have a flexible, form-fitting inner skin, with all the pressure pads calibrated, and then you will don the hard suit over that, and plug in a bunch of ribbon cables to the actual motors.
 

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