How to solve mass-spring system when affected by torque in a pulley?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a mass-spring system influenced by torque in a pulley setup. Participants are examining the implications of a frictionless pulley and the relationships between torque, moment of inertia, and angular velocity, while addressing potential misunderstandings in the problem's formulation.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the definitions and implications of a frictionless pulley, particularly regarding the interaction between the rope and pulley. There is confusion about the correct application of torque equations and the role of the coefficient C in the context of damping. Some participants are attempting to reconcile the given formulas with their understanding of torque and angular acceleration.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and questioning assumptions. There is recognition of potential errors in the formulation of torque and its relationship to angular velocity. Some participants express uncertainty about the correctness of their approaches and the necessity of using the provided formula.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem may involve mandatory formulas, which could limit their ability to explore alternative approaches. There is also mention of a diagram that may not align with the textual description of the problem, suggesting possible misinterpretations.

bolzano95
Messages
89
Reaction score
7
Homework Statement
Write a differential equation for a mass-spring system.
Relevant Equations
F=ma
pulley.png

image1.png
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
bolzano95 said:
There is no friction between the rope and pulley.
You don't mean that. A frictionless pulley means there is no friction at the axle.
If there were no friction between pulley and rope the pulley would not turn; the rope would just slide over it.

A few mistakes towards the end.
Torque = moment of inertia times.. what?
A factor of R seems to have disappeared somewhere.
 
haruspex said:
You don't mean that. A frictionless pulley means there is no friction at the axle.
If there were no friction between pulley and rope the pulley would not turn; the rope would just slide over it.

A few mistakes towards the end.
Torque = moment of inertia times.. what?
A factor of R seems to have disappeared somewhere.
Sorry, I meant the rope does not slip on the pulley.

I fixed the last equations and double checked the R-s. But I'm still confused by what you mean with
Torque = moment of inertia times ... what?
The torque in this case is given as a product of C and angular velocity, where C is a factor of dampening.

Screenshot 2021-04-27 at 12.39.24.png

Is this correct?
 
bolzano95 said:
The torque in this case is given as a product of C and angular velocity
Torque has dimension ##ML^2T^{-2}##. Moment of inertia is ##ML^2## and angular velocity is ##T^{-1}##. Multiplying those last two gives ##ML^2T^{-1}##, not torque.

bolzano95 said:
C is a factor of dampening.
There is no damping here (much less dampening - all is dry). The forces are all conservative.
 
I checked the torque and I agree there is something wrong, but unfortunately I have to use the given formula (it's mandatory). But I think that in the coefficient C are hidden necessary units.

I suppose that the goal of this problem is to write a homogeneous linear differential formula, but what I get is a nonhomogeneous one. So I just wanted to check if my solving process is correct.
 
bolzano95 said:
I have to use the given formula (it's mandatory)
Either you were given the wrong formula or you have misunderstood.
The equation is ##\tau=I\alpha##, torque equals moment of inertia times angular acceleration.
 
The statement “... there is a torque in the axis or rotation” suggests to me that the shown diagram does not correspond with the text of this problem.
 
Lnewqban said:
The statement “... there is a torque in the axis or rotation” suggests to me that the shown diagram does not correspond with the text of this problem.
Good point.
@bolzano95, does that statement correspond to a part of the problem statement that you have left out? I.e. your ##-C\omega## term is correct but your error is that you left out the ##-I\alpha## term from the torque difference?

I remain doubtful of that because axial friction should be ##-C\frac{\omega}{|\omega|}(T_1+T_2)##.

Edit: added tension factor above.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Lnewqban

Similar threads

  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
5K
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
7K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
5K
Replies
15
Views
2K