Human Flight

  • Thread starter sphoenixee
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  • #51
Danger
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Er... no... :uhh:
 
  • #52
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I realize that many of you think this is a joke, but please realize that my project does involve far more than ornithopter flight. It's just that I had a question specifically about this part and wanted some input. So, if you don't have anything related or helpful to say, then please don't waste your time commenting or my time reading.

sphoenixee
 
  • #53
Danger
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No need to get snippy, youngster. You've had more than enough serious opinions from all of us. Despite the level of expertise of your various respondents, we still have to lighten up once in a while. We've already explained why you can't do what you want to, and yet you are insisting that we keep brainstorming until we come up with a way that you can. If any of us could overcome science enough to do that, we'd be rich.
 
  • #54
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No need to get snippy, youngster. You've had more than enough serious opinions from all of us. Despite the level of expertise of your various respondents, we still have to lighten up once in a while. We've already explained why you can't do what you want to, and yet you are insisting that we keep brainstorming until we come up with a way that you can. If any of us could overcome science enough to do that, we'd be rich.
I'm a youngster now??? You got an elixir? (Now, that'd make you rich...) I was being a bit harsh, yes, and my humblest apologies for that. I do appreciate and highly value your insightful comments. Nevertheless, I still don't appreciate ridiculing of my project or discussion of completely unrelated things, and, I did not and still do not insist that you do anything. :biggrin:
 
  • #55
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No comment

I realize that many of you think this is a joke, but please realize that my project does involve far more than ornithopter flight. It's just that I had a question specifically about this part and wanted some input. So, if you don't have anything related or helpful to say, then please don't waste your time commenting or my time reading.

sphoenixee
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=148806
 
  • #56
DaveC426913
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I'm a youngster now??? You got an elixir? (Now, that'd make you rich...) I was being a bit harsh, yes, and my humblest apologies for that. I do appreciate and highly value your insightful comments. Nevertheless, I still don't appreciate ridiculing of my project or discussion of completely unrelated things, and, I did not and still do not insist that you do anything. :biggrin:
I don't recall anyone ridiculing anything. Worst offense was a side discussion about Danger's Magical Diabetes. My bad there.
 
  • #57
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My two cents.

I joined just to post this. I hope that maybe someone else has the wherewithal to execute what I yet cannot. What if you had essentially a biomimicked set of wings optimized for human weight, not unlike an articulated hang glider, but with some imitation of at least the feather stages to introduce vortex's at low speeds. Attach these to a rigid body harness holding the flyer in a prone position. Allow the flyer to apply force for the downstroke with a combined leg press/arm press. This allows most of the capacity for human work to be applied together. Implement either a sliding mount for the wing or lateral hinge mechanism front to aft of wing sweep that is tethered in some way to the stroke's position, keeping the center of weight in line with the center of lift of the wing. If more power is needed, affix some small dc motors akin to drill motors in line with the pulleys that drive the wing, giving power assist. Power these by replacing the skin of the wing with new mylar thin film photovoltaics. Use Lithium Ion batteries to store energy for takeoff. Now, find a spot with sufficient room for the wing to fully "flap", and take off. Using the power assist, attain enough altitude to find thermals and use them for maximum efficiency and rest, while of course still collecting solar energy to help you from thermal to thermal. Control the angle of attack of the wing by moving the handles on the end of a bar for and aft in a channel on a pivot. Pull this same bar in and away from the line of bilateral symmetry to extend and retract wings. I admit it is difficult to ascertain what I mean by the last two sentences, in summary I would simply refer to it as an integrated closed loop control system. Before writing me off as a kook, google the Argentinian Teratorn, also look up some solar gliders.
 
  • #58
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I just started my research on this topic with some air propulsion theory behind

Have u got any progress made on this topic ...
 
  • #59
My daughter is actually researching this for a science fair project. She has read the "Maximum Ride" books by James Patterson and has become very interested in the idea of humans with wings. The topic of her science fair project is "Can people fly with wings?". This forum has been very informative. Any thoughts for how a 7th grader should proceed? I have had her research the anatomy of birds, bats, and humans. I have also had her look up the ration of weight vs wing span.

Any resources we should consider? thanks! Also - we are not sure what some of the symbols mean ("N" and "J"). My degrees are in Polictical Science and Economic Development, not science. :)
 
  • #60
russ_watters
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What is the goal of the project?
 
  • #61
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When you say "N" and "J" are they truly sybols or are they units? Like "Requires 500 N" and "The amount of energy requried is one million 'J' "

Or...For a 7th grader, it's kind of hard to do this topic justice. Maybe a study on the feasibility of past designs? There have been plenty of flying-man designs. I'm almost positive all non-gliders have failed, but I'm sure they had some good components to them. Study what worked and what didn't.

I.e. This one had a large wingspan but it was too heavy
This one had the right mechanisms but it was too hard for a person to operate

That kind of stuff.
 
  • #62
Thank you for the responses!

First - I was wondering what the symbols meant just as you wrote "500 J".

Second - I wish I could convince her to change the subject. She very much wants to know about actual human flight. She gets upset when she finds something telling her it is not possbile. I am having her write down all of the reasons why it is not possible so she might find and alternative.

This is her idea. Create some kind of "mind connection" to the attachable wings. Think of the "mind flex" toys and "Doc. Oct" from Spiderman. She has researched the use of brainwaves to move objects - mind flex. The limitation is that the user has to concentrate very much so in order to "move" the object. We also discussed how nerves work.

My thought was if she followed up on this idea, perhaps she could refine it enough to be applied elsewhere - ie allowing parapalegics the ablility to walk or allowing MS patients to use other parts of the brain to overcome damaged parts. (I have MS so she liked that idea)

I degress, What do you all think of the "mind connection" to attachable wings?
 
  • #63
please excuse the spelling
 
  • #64
882
34
a "J" is a Joule. A unit of energy.
An "N" is a Newton, a unit of Force

Second. It's great to encourage out-side the box thinking. But I don't care how hard you concentrate, your mind alone isn't going to provide the energy requried to sustain powered flight...
But it is a science fair. A study of potential applications of this technology (I haven't heard of it...I don't think it is for actually "moving" things, but for providing the data for control, perhaps?) is probably a pretty good option.
 

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