Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Huygens synchronization of two clocks

  1. Aug 1, 2015 #1
    This is the title of a new paper published by two Portuguese scientists (see http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150723/srep11548/full/srep11548.html or http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150723/srep11548/pdf/srep11548.pdf).

    They developed a math model of the synchronization of the two clocks and the experimental data has validated the model.

    Now they are extending their model. They expect to became to a model for matrix of "clocks".

    My question is:
    Is it possible that such a model could be used to explain also the behavior of ultra frozen helium atoms, when they synchronize their vibrational mode?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 2, 2015 #2

    mfb

    User Avatar
    2016 Award

    Staff: Mentor

    Do you have a reference for that?
     
  4. Aug 4, 2015 #3
    I have not. Those effect was presented in a scientific documentary see on TV.
    Maybe you will find some useful refs. at
    http://physics.aps.org/articles/v5/136
    (Viewpoint: Helium Puddles Near Absolute Zero, by Francis M. Gasparini, Department of Physics, University at Buffalo, SUNY, Buffalo, NY 14260, USA
    December 3, 2012• Physics 5, 136, - He refers 10 articles)
     
  5. Aug 4, 2015 #4
  6. Aug 4, 2015 #5

    mfb

    User Avatar
    2016 Award

    Staff: Mentor

    I found the book at google books.

    No idea what you mean with "when they synchronize their vibrational mode", however.
     
  7. Aug 4, 2015 #6
    I mean: in the first moment each atom has his own quantum state and after some time all them are at the same quantum state (and then I think they can be described as a single quantum entity).

    At the TV documentary a scientist has presented a similar behavior of a set of little balls, all with the same radius and weight, floating at the surface of some liquid at a vat on a vibrational platform. After some time the balls auto rearranged in a lattice or grid pattern and with synchronous and isometric oscillations.

    It seams to me that the math model of this system and the math model of the helium atoms could me similar.
     
  8. Aug 4, 2015 #7

    mfb

    User Avatar
    2016 Award

    Staff: Mentor

    This has nothing to do with the effects discussed in the paper you mentioned in post 1.
     
  9. Aug 4, 2015 #8
    The two Huygens clocks synchronize because they exchange very thin energy pulses (sound waves through he shared support).
    I want to know if the atoms can "synchronize" their quantum state by the exchange of quanta between them.
    It seems to me that both ways may be could be described by some similar math...
     
  10. Aug 4, 2015 #9

    e.bar.goum

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Education Advisor

    You're thinking of a Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC). You can read some of the formalism here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose–Einstein_condensate. The simplified model of Einstein's non-interacting gas is quite a friendly read.
    But basically, the atoms aren't "synchronizing" like the clocks do, so much as all being forced into one state by virtue of not having any other options.
     
  11. Aug 5, 2015 #10
    Please clarify this concept
     
  12. Aug 5, 2015 #11

    e.bar.goum

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Education Advisor

    It's kind of self-explanatory - a gas whose particles do not interact with each other. Think "ideal gas".
     
  13. Aug 5, 2015 #12

    e.bar.goum

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Education Advisor

  14. Aug 5, 2015 #13
    Thank you by your kind and patient answers. I regret to have not enough knowledge to fully understand all the equations. But I think that I have understand all the concepts involved.
    I began this thread with some hope that the math models where the two Portuguese scientists are working, could describe the time evolution of some quantum system, eventually with more or less adaptation.

    Thanks, again.
     
  15. Aug 5, 2015 #14
    As what concerns me, you can close this thread.
    Thank you and best regards
     
  16. Aug 5, 2015 #15

    mfb

    User Avatar
    2016 Award

    Staff: Mentor

    Interactions between particles in Bose-Einstein condensates are often problematic - especially three-particle interactions, which can lead to a (classical) condensation to a solid as the temperature is way below the boiling or melting points of the substance.
    Cooling happens mainly via the interaction with external things.
     
  17. Aug 5, 2015 #16
    That is an experimental issue, right?
    Theoretical treatment has not those difficulties, I suppose.
    Do you know something about the works of Jacky Cresson ( http://jcresson.perso.univ-pau.fr/ ) and others ( e.g. http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.93.030403 or 10.1103/PhysRevLett.93.030403 )
    Scale calculus and the concept of space having a fractal nature can or not give us exact solutions instead of the probabilistic approach?
     
  18. Aug 6, 2015 #17

    mfb

    User Avatar
    2016 Award

    Staff: Mentor

    This is an experimental issue, right.
    Don't add even more unrelated concepts to the thread please.
     
  19. Aug 6, 2015 #18
    Sorry. Thank you by the warning.
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook




Similar Discussions: Huygens synchronization of two clocks
  1. Clock Synchronization (Replies: 7)

  2. Huygens Principle (Replies: 7)

  3. Huygen wavefront (Replies: 6)

Loading...