Hydrogen molecule in a small box, thought experiment

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thought experiment involving a hydrogen molecule placed in a box smaller than the Bohr diameter. Participants explore the implications for the state of the electrons and protons under such confinement, considering theoretical frameworks and potential solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the physical feasibility of constructing a box smaller than the Bohr diameter but suggests using an infinite square well potential as an alternative model.
  • Another participant acknowledges the suggestion of the infinite square well but notes the complexity of solving the Schrödinger equation for four interacting particles.
  • A participant proposes that qualitative insights can be gained by considering a very small box size and discusses the energy level spacings in an infinite square well, suggesting that for small enough box sizes, the interaction energy becomes negligible compared to kinetic energy.
  • There is a mention of using time-independent perturbation theory to calculate the effects of Coulomb interactions in the limit where the box size is much smaller than the Bohr radius.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of the thought experiment and the complexity of the calculations involved. There is no consensus on the exact state of the hydrogen molecule under these conditions, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of confinement and the interactions between particles, which may not be fully addressed. The limitations of the proposed models and the mathematical challenges of solving the Schrödinger equation for the system are acknowledged but not resolved.

edpell
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What would happen if we placed a hydrogen molecule in a box with sides less than the Bohr diameter. That is, a box so small the electrons could not orbit around the protons at a distance of a Bohr radius. What state would the two electrons and two protons take?
 
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edpell said:
What would happen if we placed a hydrogen molecule in a box with sides less than the Bohr diameter. That is, a box so small the electrons could not orbit around the protons at a distance of a Bohr radius. What state would the two electrons and two protons take?

You can't build a box that size, but I expect that you don't literally mean a "box" and you'd be happy with an infinite square well potential... And we have a perfectly good Hamiltonian based on the interaction between the four charged particles... Just solve the Schrödinger equation for those conditions and see what comes out. It won't be an unexcited hydrogen molecule, but it will be some sensible arrangement of two protons and two electrons.
 
Yes, an infinite square well potential is fine. "Just solve Schrödinger equation" is easier said than done for four interacting particles in a potential well. Does anybody know of a software package that might be able to do this? Thanks.
 
You can probably get some qualitative insight into the solution for a very small box size without doing too much calculation. Suppose the box has a width of L. Suppose there were no interactions between the particles; then we just have a 3D infinite square well. The spacings between the energy levels in an infinite square well go like 1/L^2. Now add in the Coulomb interactions. The Coulomb potential is 1/r so we should expect the interaction energy to go like 1/L. So for small enough L (presumably L << the Bohr radius) the interaction energy becomes negligible because 1/L << 1/L^2. The particles essentially act like free particles, because they have too much kinetic energy to really notice the Coulomb force. If you wanted I think you could do time-independent perturbation theory to calculate the leading effects of the Coulomb interaction in this limit. I expect, though that this approach only really works for L << the Bohr radius.
 

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