I hope this is not too controversial.The more I learn about math and

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between mathematics, physics, and religion, exploring how experiences in STEM fields may influence perceptions of religious beliefs. Participants reflect on the historical context of religion as a means of explaining the unknown and question the relevance of religious practices in the modern scientific landscape.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that critical thinking skills developed in math and physics lead to a perception that religion is irrational, especially in light of scientific advancements.
  • Others suggest that while historical explanations for natural phenomena may have justified religious beliefs, the current understanding of the universe remains incomplete, leaving questions about its origin unanswered.
  • A participant challenges the notion that the universe is fully explained, asserting that the origin of the universe and the laws of physics themselves remain unexplained.
  • There is a suggestion that the repetitive nature of religious practices contrasts with the progressive nature of science and mathematics.
  • Some participants express concern about the controversial nature of the topic and the potential for arguments, referencing forum policies against discussions on religious beliefs.
  • A participant questions whether the criticisms of religion are based on personal experiences with various religious groups, suggesting that not all religious individuals fit the described patterns.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance and rationality of religion in the context of scientific understanding. There is no consensus on the relationship between religion and scientific inquiry, and the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of their arguments, particularly regarding the complexity of religious beliefs and the incomplete understanding of the universe. The discussion reflects a variety of personal experiences and interpretations of religion and science.

ehrenfest
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I hope this is not too controversial.

The more I learn about math and physics and the more time I spend in math and physics classes, the more religions seem so so wrong. The number of people around the world that go regularly to worship a deity is just astonishing to me. If you start applying the critical thinking techniques that you learn in math and physics courses to things like religion, it is really not hard to see why being religious makes no sense.

Maybe historically when there were so many unexplained physical phenomena, it might have made sense to use religion to explain them. But today, when you really have to delve deep to find something that is not explained, there is just nothing a religious system has to offer except maybe comfort about dying but that is really something we should be able to handle ourselves.

There are so many productive things a person could do instead of going to pray such as write a textbook, read a textbook, exercise, do homework, plant a tree. Unlike math and physics, religions are hardly progressive. Every year, people go to religious services and sing exactly the same songs and read exactly the same literature over and over again. That totally defies the spirit science and math which is always moving forward and making new discoveries and optimizing itself.

Sure there are lots of good things that religions do such as helping poor people. But at least some of their motivation comes their scripture telling them to do that. An organization devoted only to helping poor people only would be much more efficient and productive.

Of course, I respect people who are religious, I just think they are making a very irrational decision especially if they are also mathematicians or physicists.

Obviously I cannot prove that being religious is "bad", I can only give arguments why I think so. The point of this thread is to see whether other people in math and physics have come to the same conclusions I have. I think that there is really no point in arguing at length about this topic since this is not like a math problem. Basically, I came to the conclusions above from a lot of experience such as sitting in math courses and reading math books. I am wondering if that same experience has had the same effect on other people.
 
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ehrenfest said:
I hope this is not too controversial.

Ha! :)

Maybe historically when there were so many unexplained physical phenomena, it might have made sense to use religion to explain them. But today, when you really have to delve deep to find something that is not explained, there is just nothing a religious system has to offer except maybe comfort about dying but that is really something we should be able to handle ourselves.

The universe is an unexplained physical phenomenon.
 
Phlogistonian said:
The universe is an unexplained physical phenomenon.

I don't think that's a meaningful statement. What I meant was that historically people saw bright lights in the sky at night and had no idea what they were. Every year there were four seasons and no one knew why. Now we do.

Phlogistonian said:
Ha! :)

Why is that funny?
 
ehrenfest said:
I don't think that's a meaningful statement. What I meant was that historically people saw bright lights in the sky at night and had no idea what they were. Every year there were four seasons and no one knew why. Now we do.

Of course it's meaningful. The origin of the universe is unexplained. (If you think it came from a multiverse, then the origin of the multiverse is unexplained.) You know the laws of physics, but that doesn't prove you know where the laws of physics came from.
 
ehrenfest said:
Why is that funny?

You're contradicting the strongly held beliefs of the majority of the world, and you hope it's not too controversial. ;)
 
Given the recent pattern of responses to topics about religion, I'm afraid this one isn't likely to turn out any better, so I'm locking it.
 
Well the topic - criticism of religion and peoples beliefs is controversial. That's why PF has a policy of no discussions on religious beliefs - because people will going on arguing.

ehrenfest said:
There are so many productive things a person could do instead of going to pray such as write a textbook, read a textbook, exercise, do homework, plant a tree. Unlike math and physics, religions are hardly progressive. Every year, people go to religious services and sing exactly the same songs and read exactly the same literature over and over again. That totally defies the spirit science and math which is always moving forward and making new discoveries and optimizing itself.
Is this criticism based on personal experience observing various religious groups? It sounds nothing like many religious folks I know.

. . . . Basically, I came to the conclusions above from a lot of experience such as sitting in math courses and reading math books. I am wondering if that same experience has had the same effect on other people.
Has one spent a similar amount of time with various religious groups?
 

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