I think I understand, but where do you find force?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves finding the coefficient of kinetic friction required to stop a train engine with a mass of 10,000 kg, initially traveling at 30 m/s, over a period of 30 seconds. The discussion centers around the forces acting on the train and the calculations needed to determine the friction involved in stopping it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to find the acceleration of the train to understand the forces involved. Questions arise about the nature of the forces acting on the train, particularly whether gravity or velocity plays a role in the stopping force.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing with various interpretations being explored. Some participants have suggested using kinematic equations to find acceleration, while others express confusion about the forces at play. Guidance has been offered regarding the relationship between friction and the stopping force, but no consensus has been reached on the specifics of the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem does not explicitly state certain values, such as acceleration, leading to confusion. There is also mention of the assumption that air resistance can be neglected in this context.

Laura0901

Homework Statement


Find the coefficient of kinetic friction that is used to stop a train engine along its track of the trains velocity is 30 m/s when the brakes are applied, and it takes 30 sec for the 10,000 kg train to stop

Homework Equations


Ffric=MN=Mmg
(I think that's the equation to use.

The Attempt at a Solution


Ffric=M(10000kg)(9.8m/s)
Ffric=M(98,000)
What do you use for the force? 30m/s?
 

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Laura0901 said:

Homework Statement


Find the coefficient of kinetic friction that is used to stop a train engine along its track of the trains velocity is 30 m/s when the brakes are applied, and it takes 30 sec for the 10,000 kg train to stop

Homework Equations


Ffric=MN=Mmg
(I think that's the equation to use.

The Attempt at a Solution


Ffric=M(10000kg)(9.8m/s)
Ffric=M(98,000)
What do you use for the force? 30m/s?
Hello Laura0901. Welcome to PF !

What is the acceleration of the train ?
 
It is not said in the problem.
 
Laura0901 said:
It is not said in the problem.
Of course you must figure it out from the given information.
 
And how would you do that? Using the kinematic equations?
 
Why would we need to find the acceleration? I need the friction force.
 
Laura0901 said:
Why would we need to find the acceleration? I need the friction force.
And, just what force is it that is slowing the train?
 
Either gravity or velocity..I think.
 
Laura0901 said:
Either gravity or velocity..I think.
The train slows to a stop. That's an acceleration. That requires a force. (Ask Mr. Newton.)

Gravity is a force, but it acts in a vertical, the train's motion and its acceleration are in the horizontal direction. Gravity is not the force which slows the train.

Velocity is not a force.
 
  • #10
1) Figure out the force in the x-direction that SammyS is talking about, the force that causes the train to stop.
2) Use kinematics to find a
3)Use Fx=max to find the magnitude of the force mentioned in step one
Then you should have enough data to solve Ffric=M(98,000)
 
  • #11
Thanks for trying to help me understand
 
  • #12
There aren't any forces in the x direction. I don't think length is a force. I don't know how to find friction.
 
  • #13
Laura0901 said:
There aren't any forces in the x direction. .
Then the train's going to keep going in the x direction.

By the way: What direction is the friction force ?
 
  • #14
The Positive direction
 
  • #15
Is it 2N?
 
  • #16
Laura0901 said:
The Positive direction

Positive in what sense?
Positive x-direction?
or
Positive as in upward?
 
  • #17
The x direction, it is horizontal
 
  • #18
Okay... I hope you are asking if fk is 2N because M is not in Newtons. I don't think fk=2N either though...
 
  • #19
stephen8686 said:
Okay... I hope you are asking if fk is 2N because M is not in Newtons. I don't think fk=2N either though...
Right. It would take very long time to stop.
 
  • #20
Ughh I'm so bad at everything sorry guys.
 
  • #21
I don't understand how you'd even get a number just because it's a horizontal force?
 
  • #23
I think I understand friction now thanks for the video.
 
  • #24
So is air resistance part of it?
 
  • #25
Laura0901 said:
So is air resistance part of it?
Probably not much. The friction force is stopping a train.

Calculate the acceleration as has been suggested previously.
 
  • #26
I got one by using v=at
 
  • #27
I'm so bad at this :/
 
  • #28
Air resistance is a totally different thing. You'll learn that later in physics. Until then, assume there is no air resistance. Kinetic friction is between two objects sliding on each other.
 
  • #29
I agree a=1 (or -1 depending on your positive x direction).
 
  • #30
Thank you for your time. If I get this problem wrong on the quiz, I'll get a 75%. I'll take that..
 

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