# B Idea / doubt about the movement of electrons

1. Oct 11, 2017

### Airton Gomes de Lima

Hi.

First, let me introduce myself:
I m from Brazil, I studied physics a few years ago and I ended up leaving the course, today I work with software development.

I would like to know if you can help me to take a doubt:
I came up with an idea that an electron could move so fast that it would even get near itself, that would cause its electromagnetic field to push itself up and down causing it to move in waves. This is possible?

If I don't make me clear please respond, my english isn't the best.

Thank you all!

2. Oct 11, 2017

### Staff: Mentor

Welcome to the PF.
Sorry, but that does not make sense so far. Can you Upload a sketch of what you are asking about? Electrons moving in antennas can make electromagnetic waves that propagate away from the antenna, if that's what you mean.

3. Oct 11, 2017

### Airton Gomes de Lima

I'm talking about the particle wave duality.
I made a drawing to try to explain better:

The basic idea that the electron is pushed up and down by itself, as it traverses the circumference around the nucleus so fast that it gets close to itself and its electromagnetic field causes it to behave like a wave.

4. Oct 11, 2017

### scottdave

I am not sure what you mean by: it would get near itself.
An electron in motion will create a magnetic field, but this will be circular, and perpendicular to the direction of motion.

5. Oct 11, 2017

### Staff: Mentor

6. Oct 11, 2017

### ZapperZ

Staff Emeritus
You need to learn a bit more of not just QM, but also classical E&M.

If the electron that is orbiting your nucleus is emitting its electromagnetic field, then via classical E&M, it is losing energy! It will collapse into the nucleus.

This is not what is going on in a stable atom. A electron does not radiate when it is in a stable orbital.

By the way, this view of electron moving around the circumference of a nucleus is not a accurate description of what is going on in an atom, if this is what your scenario involves. You need to learn a bit more of what we already know before you try to propose something else.

Zz

7. Oct 11, 2017

### weirdoguy

Which is not a part of any of modern quantum theories. There are quite a few threads here about that issue.

8. Oct 11, 2017

### Staff: Mentor

Electrons do not "move in waves". Equations for waves can be useful to calculate the motion of electrons in some cases, but there is nothing that would follow a wavy line like in your sketch.

You are taking bad pop-science descriptions of the Bohr model (which is outdated for 80 years now) way too literal here.

9. Oct 12, 2017

### Airton Gomes de Lima

Hello everyone, sorry for the delay in my response, I had a hell of a day at work yesterday. Thank you all for the answers! :D

As I said I quit college, quantum physics was one of the subjects that I could not study unfortunely.

Guys:
I watched this video and readed the articles you guys posted here an realise the nonsense I was talking: I still had the idea that the electron moved in all valence layerst hrough orbits around the nucleus. I don't understand why there is so many materials and books who still put in this way: https://sciencing.com/calculate-charge-ion-5955179.html

But there is anyway a particle can travel fast enough to find itself in the "past" during his own acceleration? Or that it comes close at least? (Of course, if was possible to maintain this particle in this circle to not escape).

10. Oct 12, 2017

### ZapperZ

Staff Emeritus
How about we try to learn how to crawl FIRST before attempting to run the sprints in the Olympics?

You have shown that you do not have a good grasp of basic QM and basic classical E&M. Before trying to speculate on whether a particle can find itself "in the past", etc....etc., how about you learn the foundation knowledge to be able to get to that level? Otherwise, you run the risk of violating the PF Rules by spewing out nonsensical ideas that have no support from physics.

Zz.

11. Oct 12, 2017

### Airton Gomes de Lima

12. Oct 12, 2017

### Staff: Mentor

No, not at all.