Idea / doubt about the movement of electrons

[Airton Gomes de Lima]

Hi.

First, let me introduce myself:
I m from Brazil, I studied physics a few years ago and I ended up leaving the course, today I work with software development.

I would like to know if you can help me to take a doubt:
I came up with an idea that an electron could move so fast that it would even get near itself, that would cause its electromagnetic field to push itself up and down causing it to move in waves. This is possible?

If I don't make me clear please respond, my english isn't the best.

Thank you all!

 

[berkeman]

Welcome to the PF.

I came up with an idea that an electron could move so fast that it would even get near itself, that would cause its electromagnetic field to push itself up and down causing it to move in waves. This is possible?

Sorry, but that does not make sense so far. Can you Upload a sketch of what you are asking about? Electrons moving in antennas can make electromagnetic waves that propagate away from the antenna, if that's what you mean.

 

[Airton Gomes de Lima]

Hello Berkeman, thanks for reply.
I'm talking about the particle wave duality.
I made a drawing to try to explain better:

The basic idea that the electron is pushed up and down by itself, as it traverses the circumference around the nucleus so fast that it gets close to itself and its electromagnetic field causes it to behave like a wave.

 

[scottdave]

I am not sure what you mean by: it would get near itself.
An electron in motion will create a magnetic field, but this will be circular, and perpendicular to the direction of motion.

 

[berkeman]

The basic idea that the electron is pushed up and down by itself,

Still not sure what that means, but you shouldn't be thinking of the electron as a particle when it is in an atom. Have you learned any basic Quantum Mechanics yet?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_configuration

EDIT/ADD:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron

 

[ZapperZ]

Hello Berkeman, thanks for reply.
I'm talking about the particle wave duality.
I made a drawing to try to explain better:

The basic idea that the electron is pushed up and down by itself, as it traverses the circumference around the nucleus so fast that it gets close to itself and its electromagnetic field causes it to behave like a wave.

View attachment 212791
View attachment 212792

You need to learn a bit more of not just QM, but also classical E&M.

If the electron that is orbiting your nucleus is emitting its electromagnetic field, then via classical E&M, it is losing energy! It will collapse into the nucleus.

This is not what is going on in a stable atom. A electron does not radiate when it is in a stable orbital.

By the way, this view of electron moving around the circumference of a nucleus is not a accurate description of what is going on in an atom, if this is what your scenario involves. You need to learn a bit more of what we already know before you try to propose something else.

Zz

 

[weirdoguy]

I'm talking about the particle wave duality.

Which is not a part of any of modern quantum theories. There are quite a few threads here about that issue.

 

[mfb]

Electrons do not "move in waves". Equations for waves can be useful to calculate the motion of electrons in some cases, but there is nothing that would follow a wavy line like in your sketch.

You are taking bad pop-science descriptions of the Bohr model (which is outdated for 80 years now) way too literal here.

 

[Airton Gomes de Lima]

Hello everyone, sorry for the delay in my response, I had a hell of a day at work yesterday. Thank you all for the answers! :D

I am not sure what you mean by: it would get near itself.
An electron in motion will create a magnetic field, but this will be circular, and perpendicular to the direction of motion.

Still not sure what that means, but you shouldn't be thinking of the electron as a particle when it is in an atom. Have you learned any basic Quantum Mechanics yet?

As I said I quit college, quantum physics was one of the subjects that I could not study unfortunely.

You need to learn a bit more of not just QM, but also classical E&M.
If the electron that is orbiting your nucleus is emitting its electromagnetic field, then via classical E&M, it is losing energy! It will collapse into the nucleus.
This is not what is going on in a stable atom. A electron does not radiate when it is in a stable orbital.
By the way, this view of electron moving around the circumference of a nucleus is not a accurate description of what is going on in an atom, if this is what your scenario involves. You need to learn a bit more of what we already know before you try to propose something else.
Zz

Which is not a part of any of modern quantum theories. There are quite a few threads here about that issue.

Electrons do not "move in waves". Equations for waves can be useful to calculate the motion of electrons in some cases, but there is nothing that would follow a wavy line like in your sketch.
You are taking bad pop-science descriptions of the Bohr model (which is outdated for 80 years now) way too literal here.

Guys:
I watched this video and readed the articles you guys posted here an realize the nonsense I was talking: I still had the idea that the electron moved in all valence layerst hrough orbits around the nucleus. I don't understand why there is so many materials and books who still put in this way: https://sciencing.com/calculate-charge-ion-5955179.html

But there is anyway a particle can travel fast enough to find itself in the "past" during his own acceleration? Or that it comes close at least? (Of course, if was possible to maintain this particle in this circle to not escape).

 

[ZapperZ]

But there is anyway a particle can travel fast enough to find itself in the "past" during his own acceleration? Or that it comes close at least? (Of course, if was possible to maintain this particle in this circle to not escape).

How about we try to learn how to crawl FIRST before attempting to run the sprints in the Olympics?

You have shown that you do not have a good grasp of basic QM and basic classical E&M. Before trying to speculate on whether a particle can find itself "in the past", etc...etc., how about you learn the foundation knowledge to be able to get to that level? Otherwise, you run the risk of violating the PF Rules by spewing out nonsensical ideas that have no support from physics.

Zz.

 

[Airton Gomes de Lima]

How about we try to learn how to crawl FIRST before attempting to run the sprints in the Olympics?

You have shown that you do not have a good grasp of basic QM and basic classical E&M. Before trying to speculate on whether a particle can find itself "in the past", etc...etc., how about you learn the foundation knowledge to be able to get to that level? Otherwise, you run the risk of violating the PF Rules by spewing out nonsensical ideas that have no support from physics.

Zz.

Sorry about that.

 

[mfb]

But there is anyway a particle can travel fast enough to find itself in the "past" during his own acceleration? Or that it comes close at least?

No, not at all.