If infared energy makes things hotter, why do microwaves use radio waves?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the reasons for using microwaves in cooking appliances instead of infrared radiation, exploring the mechanisms of heating through electromagnetic radiation, and the association of infrared with heat detection. Participants examine the properties of different wavelengths and their interactions with materials, particularly water.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that microwaves are used because they penetrate food better than infrared radiation, heating it more effectively from the inside out.
  • Others argue that any electromagnetic radiation can cause heating if absorbed, regardless of wavelength.
  • One participant notes that microwaves are specifically effective due to their wavelength being proportional to the dimensions of the microwave cavity, allowing for constructive interference.
  • Another participant emphasizes that microwaves are readily absorbed by water molecules, which contributes to their effectiveness in heating food.
  • There is confusion expressed about the concepts of absorption and resonance in relation to how water molecules interact with microwave radiation.
  • Some participants question why infrared is associated with heat detection, suggesting that it is due to the emission spectrum of materials at lower temperatures.
  • One participant mentions that visible or ultraviolet light can be used for detection, but typically only at higher temperatures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the effectiveness of different wavelengths for heating and the mechanisms involved. There is no consensus on the primary reasons for using microwaves over infrared or the specifics of absorption and resonance in water molecules.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about the properties of electromagnetic radiation and its interaction with matter, which may not be universally accepted or fully explained in the discussion.

Biologik
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If infared radiation is responsible for somethings heat, why do microwaves use radio waves?
 
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Infrared does make things hotter, but it isn't the only way to make things hotter. Microwaves use microwave radiation, which is actually somewhat shorter wavelength than radio, primarily because they penetrate the food somewhat better than infrared do. They still heat from the outside in, but they penetrate farther and heat the middle more quickly than if you were to heat the food purely with infrared radiation.
 
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Electromagnetic radiation of any wavelength can cause heating if it gets absorbed.
 
Microwaves are used because their wavelength is proportional to the dimensions of the cavity of the appliance (18 - 24 inches or so). The waves bounce back and forth inside the cavity and are in phase. Electromagnetic waves of a longer or shorter wavelength would go out of phase and cancel each other out.

As I understand it, the magnetic field portion of the microwave oscillates back and forth, causing the H2O atoms (which act as dipole magnets because of the orientation of the H atoms) to flip back and forth as the positive and negative waves transverse them. The kinetic energy from the flips is absorbed by nearby molecules (carbohydrates, protiens...) by collisions. This kinetic energy gradually builds throughout the food, and is manifested as heat, and occurs throughout the food, not just the inside or outside.

As the previous poster said, any electomagnetic wave will heat the outside of an object if it is intense enough.
 
Water has a resonance around 2.4GHz, which is where your home microwave operates. The molecules absorb the uW energy and wiggle more, which means they get hotter. Strangely enough your normal 802.11b wireless i'net also operates at that frequency and tends to get lost in the mist as well...
 
Deadon2 said:
Microwaves are used because their wavelength is proportional to the dimensions of the cavity of the appliance (18 - 24 inches or so).

No, microwaves are used because they are very readily absorbed by water molecules.

As the previous poster said, any electomagnetic wave will heat the outside of an object if it is intense enough.

No, any electromagnetic wave will heat an object, period. Less intensity merely heats the object less.
 
RenasontsMan said:
No, microwaves are used because they are very readily absorbed by water molecules.

I'm having some confusion over absorption and resonance. When I think of absorption, I think of an atom's electron moving to a higher orbital, and then emitting a less energetic photon as it moves back to a ground state. I'm not sure if that applies to what's going on with the water molecule in a microwave. Not sure about resonance, but I think we're saying about the same thing, the water molecules have kinetic energy because of the wavelength of the microwave.


No, any electromagnetic wave will heat an object, period. Less intensity merely heats the object less.

I like your explanation better.
 
Still, why is infrared associated with heat? What's the physical mechanism behind using infrared detection as a substitute for heat detection? Why not ultarviolet or visible spectrum, for instance?
 
Pythagorean said:
Still, why is infrared associated with heat? What's the physical mechanism behind using infrared detection as a substitute for heat detection? Why not ultarviolet or visible spectrum, for instance?
You CAN use visible spectrum, if the body's hot enough. Fire a piece of wood and it will radiate red. Infrared is emited at lower temperatures because it requires less energy (less heat to put into body) to radiate.
Also it has probably something to do with emission spectrum of material, though I'd rather not talk about such things yet.
 
  • #10
And to further answer Pythagorean's question ... we're usually interested in detecting heat from room-temperature objects, or slightly warmer or cooler. But at those temperatures no detectable visible or uv radiation is radiated, only infrared.

Think of how hot a stove burner has to be before you see it visibly glowing red. And the sun is hotter still, hot enough to radiate uv which you can detect by getting a sunburn.
 
  • #11
ok, so it's a matter of the "scale of common interest".
 
  • #12
Redbelly98 said:
And the sun is hotter still, hot enough to radiate uv which you can detect by getting a sunburn.

I like it, a very advanced method of discovering if an object emits UV, haha :D
 

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