Imaginary Transverse Space of Superluminal Lorentz Transform

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of superluminal Lorentz transformations, particularly focusing on the nature of transverse space in the context of tachyons as presented in a referenced paper. Participants explore the implications of imaginary units in transformations and the challenges of defining reference frames for superluminal objects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the paper uses imaginary coefficients for transverse transformations, questioning whether this implies that transverse space is 'imaginary' while the x-direction is 'real'.
  • Another participant counters that all four spacetime directions remain real within Minkowski spacetime, suggesting the use of unconventional conventions rather than a change in the underlying geometry.
  • Discussion includes the notion of a tachyonic Lorentz factor and the necessity of preserving the light cone, with one participant indicating that a rotation to the complex plane is involved.
  • Concerns are raised about the concept of a "frame of a tachyon," with participants arguing that such a frame does not function like ordinary inertial frames, which only apply to timelike worldlines.
  • Imaginary numbers in the paper are interpreted as indicative of the fundamental differences in describing spacelike worldlines.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of transverse space and the feasibility of defining reference frames for tachyons. There is no consensus on whether superluminal reference frames can be easily described, with some participants expressing skepticism.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the understanding of tachyonic frames and the implications of imaginary numbers in transformations, without resolving these complexities.

greswd
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I was reading this paper: http://dinamico2.unibg.it/recami/erasmo%20docs/SomeOld/RevisitingSLTsLNC1982.pdf

It is on superluminal Lorentz transformations and is too advanced for me. :confused:

But anyway, take a look at equation(s) (11). For the y' and z' transformations, there is an imaginary unit coefficient. But for the x' transformation, there is none.

So the space in the x-direction is 'real', but the transverse space around it is 'imaginary'?
 
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greswd said:
the space in the x-direction is 'real', but the transverse space around it is 'imaginary'?

From what I can see on a quick skim of the paper, no. They are still talking about Minkowski spacetime, so all four of the spacetime directions are real. They are just using some strange conventions because they are trying to construct "inertial frames" in which an object "at rest" is moving on a spacelike worldline.
 
PeterDonis said:
From what I can see on a quick skim of the paper, no. They are still talking about Minkowski spacetime, so all four of the spacetime directions are real. They are just using some strange conventions because they are trying to construct "inertial frames" in which an object "at rest" is moving on a spacelike worldline.
it seems like they are using a tachyonic Lorentz factor \frac{1}{\sqrt{\beta^2-1}}
and the only way to preserve the light cone between transformations (such that a photon does not end up with a superluminal velocity) is a rotation to the complex plane.

I've got some info from: http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2012/09/25/rspa.2012.0340
but they didn't tackle the transverse spatial dimensions.
 
greswd said:
it seems like they are using a tachyonic Lorentz factor

Yes, but that just corresponds to using a weird mathematical convention to describe the same spacetime. Nothing about the underlying spacetime or its geometry is changed.
 
I'm wondering how to describe the transverse space in the frame of a tachyon.
 
greswd said:
I'm wondering how to describe the transverse space in the frame of a tachyon.

Part of the issue that this paper appears to be trying to deal with is that there is no such thing as "the frame of a tachyon", if by "frame" you mean "something that works just like ordinary inertial frames". An ordinary inertial frame only works for objects traveling on timelike worldlines. A "frame" in which a spacelike worldline (that of a tachyon) is "at rest" is a fundamentally different kind of thing. (I'm not even convinced that it makes physical sense, but whether it does or not, mathematically it's a fundamentally different kind of thing.) So I would not expect any description of the transverse space to match your intuitions about what such a thing "ought" to look like. The imaginary numbers that are showing up in the paper for the transverse dimensions are, I think, a symptom of the fundamental difference.
 
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PeterDonis said:
Part of the issue that this paper appears to be trying to deal with is that there is no such thing as "the frame of a tachyon", if by "frame" you mean "something that works just like ordinary inertial frames". An ordinary inertial frame only works for objects traveling on timelike worldlines. A "frame" in which a spacelike worldline (that of a tachyon) is "at rest" is a fundamentally different kind of thing. (I'm not even convinced that it makes physical sense, but whether it does or not, mathematically it's a fundamentally different kind of thing.) So I would not expect any description of the transverse space to match your intuitions about what such a thing "ought" to look like. The imaginary numbers that are showing up in the paper for the transverse dimensions are, I think, a symptom of the fundamental difference.

I see. Cos someone was telling me that superluminal reference frames could be easily described. Not so easy it seems.
 

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