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Featured Job Skills Increased demand for STEM in the next 4 years?

  1. Jan 30, 2017 #1
    Supposing immigration is heavily restricted in the future will there be an increased demand for home-grown US STEM in the next 4-8 years? How will these new rules impact the job market for US citizens? What sectors do you think will experience the biggest surge in demand?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 31, 2017 #2

    BvU

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    I think a country that's dumb enough for this crap to actually happen doesn't have a need for STEM jobs for a while to come, so the prospects are grim.
     
  4. Jan 31, 2017 #3
    If you are good in your area, most STEM areas sill continue to be in demand in the next two decades regardless of immigration policy.
     
  5. Jan 31, 2017 #4
    I know software and EE is heavily impacted by H1Bs so this should substantially increase the demand in these areas but what about the other sectors that employ stem graduates? Will academic positions become more available?
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  6. Jan 31, 2017 #5

    Vanadium 50

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    There are ~400,000 H1B's working on software. There are ~4,000,000 people in the US working on software. So it's a 10% effect. Since these are three year visas, the effect works out to - even in the most extreme case of completely ending H1B's -3% per year.
     
  7. Jan 31, 2017 #6
    That effect is substantial when only looking at software graduates per year who will be looking for work upon graduation. Opening 130,000 positions per year will be absolutely huge.
     
  8. Jan 31, 2017 #7

    Vanadium 50

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    If it only affects new graduates, that means that all the old graduates already have jobs.So it can't make a huge effect in that case either.

    My experience is that many so called computer science graduates can't program their way out of a paper bag. I don't think the reaction to a reduction in H1B's will be to hire them. It will be to hire services companies.
     
  9. Jan 31, 2017 #8
    I'm curious, why do you think that is? And do you see a correlation between CS grad abilities and alma mater?
     
  10. Feb 1, 2017 #9
    Or it could be that prior graduates aren't in software anymore and have gone into something else, the rate of CS graduates is increasing. Regardless of your experience I think it's fallacious to say American students aren't qualified or are subpar. Based upon my own experience with visa students(at the undergrad level), they perform the same as US students(while taking space from US students). If a company could have outsourced they would have, what's left is what won't be. Of course at this point the actual outcome is unknown, we will see what happens.
     
  11. Feb 1, 2017 #10

    ShayanJ

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    Computer science is to computer engineering, as physics is to all engineering. As physicists aren't supposed to be good at building a house, computer scientists aren't supposed to be good programmers. Of course sometimes some research in computer science requires programming ability but again a programmer is supposed to be able to program anything the customer needs but a computer scientist's programming ability is usually in the direction of what he's doing research on. So if you want to talk about people that are supposed to be getting programming jobs and be good at them, you should talk about computer engineers, not computer scientists.
     
  12. Feb 1, 2017 #11

    Dr Transport

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    They outsource and hire foreign students for one reason and one reason only, PROFITS. Foreign workers pay is substantially less than the comparable person in the US and on that point, companies will pay a foreign born programmer less even if they are working in the country. Follow the money scent.....
     
  13. Feb 1, 2017 #12
    There's demand NOW, look at USA jobs, Indeed, and any other major job search engine; the job openings are there.
     
  14. Feb 1, 2017 #13
    Perhaps in your country the terms 'computer science' and 'computer engineering' are defined differently than in the US. Here, computer engineering is half electrical engineering and half computer science. Computer scientists, especially those in subfields other than theoretical CS, should be decent programmers. Most graduates of computer science programs become professional programmers. In general, computer engineering programs tend to have a smaller programming component than computer science programs.
     
  15. Feb 1, 2017 #14

    StatGuy2000

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    Vanadium 50, I'm curious where you are finding these graduates. My experience has been that the computer science graduates that I know of were all competent programmers, and many were absolutely phenomenal.
     
  16. Feb 1, 2017 #15
    They're everywhere. What is your criteria for 'phenomenal'?
     
  17. Feb 1, 2017 #16

    StatGuy2000

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    'Phenomenal' means exactly that -- they have built sophisticated e-commerce systems, or programmed simulations used in clinical trial research, as some recent examples that I know first hand. The skills developed by some of the CS graduates I've worked with were impressive, and the rest were competent.

    They certainly were not people who "can't program their way out of a paper bag", to use Vanadium 50's term. Hence why I asked how his employer is hiring these people.

    But then again, the CS graduates that I've worked with are graduates from schools like the University of Toronto, University of Waterloo in Canada, or schools like the University of Michigan, Stanford or Berkeley in the US. So perhaps my sample is not representative?
     
  18. Feb 1, 2017 #17

    Vanadium 50

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    There are a huge number of programmers who are graduates of relatively unknown colleges. What seems to be the common factor is that the better programmers took classes with names like 'data structures' and the less good ones took classes with names like 'Python'.
     
  19. Feb 1, 2017 #18

    Mark44

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    From an article published 10 years ago -- https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/

    I doubt that the situation has changed much since then.
     
  20. Feb 1, 2017 #19
    Fair enough. Without derailing this thread further, I'll just say that you and I have different criteria.

    My employer still uses fizz buzz in initial interviews. It's still effective in weeding out a fair number of candidates, including some fresh CS graduates with 4.0 GPAs. To be fair, some experienced programmers have failed to solve the problem, as well.
     
  21. Feb 2, 2017 #20
    Oh gosh I once screwed up a FizzBuzz on a final, after a semester of working on a team software project. It can happen to anybody, everybody has brain farts some times.

    Vanadium 50 I think you're talking about what people call "Java schools." Some schools teach software engineering and others merely teach programming. Although you'd think even the people with a CS degree from a Java school wouldn't screw up simple interviews the way they do in that "Why can't programmers program" article.
     
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