Increasing the speed of a circular orbit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of increasing the velocity of a particle in a circular orbit, exploring the resulting orbital changes and the conditions under which these changes occur. It touches on concepts from orbital mechanics, including circular, elliptical, parabolic, and hyperbolic trajectories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that increasing the velocity of a particle in a circular orbit will result in an elliptical orbit with a greater average radius, provided the new velocity does not exceed a certain threshold.
  • Others argue that if the velocity increase reaches exactly sqrt(2) times the original orbital velocity, the particle will follow a parabolic trajectory, while exceeding this threshold leads to a hyperbolic trajectory.
  • A participant mentions the Apogee Kick Motor as an example of transitioning from an elliptical orbit to a circular orbit, drawing parallels to the discussed principles.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between mechanical energy and the type of orbit, noting that negative energy corresponds to elliptical orbits, zero energy to parabolic trajectories, and positive energy to hyperbolic trajectories.
  • One participant expresses amazement at how the mechanical energy equation encapsulates the complexities of orbital motion, including the separation of kinetic energy into radial and tangential components.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic principles of orbital mechanics, but there are competing views regarding the specific outcomes of velocity increases and the implications of the sqrt(2) threshold. The discussion remains unresolved on some finer points of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependency on specific conditions for the velocity increases and the assumptions regarding the nature of the orbits discussed. The discussion does not resolve the complexities of momentum equations in non-circular orbits.

Ahmedemad22
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What If the velocity of particle moving in a circular orbit has increased , would the particle be no longer in circular orbit or it would go in an orbit with bigger radius?
 
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It will enter an elliptical orbit, one with an average radius greater than its present radius*. The new orbit will repeatedly return to the point where its velocity was changed. If you want to move into a higher circular orbit, you can do it in a two step process. First you increase your velocity so that the furthest point of your new elliptical orbit is at the same distance as you want for the radius of your target orbit. When you reach this point of the orbit, you increase your velocity again to circularize your orbit again. In your new higher orbit you will have a smaller orbital velocity than you did in the lower orbit. This might seem strange considering you made two velocity increases, but you lose velocity while traveling outward in the elliptical orbit.

* assuming your new velocity is less than ## \sqrt{2}## times that of your starting orbital velocity. Otherwise, you will no longer be in a closed orbit but an open-ended one that will carry you away from the mass you are orbiting, never to return.
 
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Janus said:
It will enter an elliptical orbit, one with an average radius greater than its present radius*. The new orbit will repeatedly return to the point where its velocity was changed. If you want to move into a higher circular orbit, you can do it in a two step process. First you increase your velocity so that the furthest point of your new elliptical orbit is at the same distance as you want for the radius of your target orbit. When you reach this point of the orbit, you increase your velocity again to circularize your orbit again. In your new higher orbit you will have a smaller orbital velocity than you did in the lower orbit. This might seem strange considering you made two velocity increases, but you lose velocity while traveling outward in the elliptical orbit.

* assuming your new velocity is less than ## \sqrt{2}## times that of your starting orbital velocity. Otherwise, you will no longer be in a closed orbit but an open-ended one that will carry you away from the mass you are orbiting, never to return.
Hi Janus !
Thanks for your answer, it is clear and good in my opinion.

One small follow up question: in the (*) note, you give the sqrt(2) threshold limit factor for the increase of the orbital speed. If the increases in a circular orbital speed are below that threshold, one gets ellipses, if the increase factor is exactly sqrt(2) one gets a parabola, and if the increases are above it one gets hyperbolas.. Am I right?
 
Felipe good guy said:
Hi Janus !
Thanks for your answer, it is clear and good in my opinion.

One small follow up question: in the (*) note, you give the sqrt(2) threshold limit factor for the increase of the orbital speed. If the increases in a circular orbital speed are below that threshold, one gets ellipses, if the increase factor is exactly sqrt(2) one gets a parabola, and if the increases are above it one gets hyperbolas.. Am I right?
That's about it. Below escape velocity, you have elliptical orbits (with a circular orbit being a special case of an ellipse). At escape velocity, you have a parabolic trajectory. Above escape velocity, you have a hyperbolic trajectory. The other way to categorize them is by total orbital energy (KE+GPE)
Thus using the equation:
$$E= \frac{mv^2}{2}- \frac{GMm}{r}$$
Circular/elliptical orbits result in a negative values
Escape velocity/parabolic trajectories result in an answer of 0
Hyperbolic trajectories yield positive values.
 
Thanks Janus ! Thanks for your confirmation !

I do remember some points on this subject in classical mechanics. I guess I will need to review some lecture notes on the topic.

Among some curious things about orbital energy is the following:
It is nice and clear that the mechanical energy E = K+V , suffices to determine the type of orbit. But this encapsulates all the complications from the momentum equation: for example the fact that for non-circular orbits, the kinetic energy, function of the speed, comes from radial and tangential components of velocity. There is this separation on the tangential kinetic energy and the effective potential..
Whatever, it blows my mind that the formula above captures the vector problem, and finally simply the 'signs, 0s and extremes' of E dictate the type of orbit... amazing !

cheers
 

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