Information in a light beam relative to the width of the beam?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the width of a light beam and the information it can convey, particularly in the context of pinhole cameras and holography. Participants explore concepts of resolution, information transfer, and the effects of aperture size on image quality.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a lens is necessary to obtain full information from a scene when using a pinhole camera, and seeks to understand the limits of beam width in relation to information capture.
  • Another participant explains that while every piece of a hologram contains a full view of the subject, the resolution is limited by the diameter of the aperture, leading to blurry images due to missing edge information.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the relationship between resolution and the number of photons hitting the detector complicates the understanding of information in low-resolution images.
  • Concerns are raised about diffraction effects when using very small apertures, indicating that increasing exposure time does not resolve the issues caused by diffraction.
  • One participant challenges the assertion that a light beam can contain all information regardless of aperture size, clarifying that this is only true if the hole is significantly larger than the wavelength of light.
  • Another participant reflects on their confusion regarding the distribution of information in low-resolution images and the role of interference in holography, suggesting that the relationship between information and resolution is more complex than initially thought.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between beam width, resolution, and information content. There is no consensus on the implications of aperture size on image quality, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the limits of information capture in light beams.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to diffraction effects at small apertures and the dependence of resolution on the surface area of holographic media. The discussion highlights the complexity of the relationship between physical properties of light and the information they convey.

Zelebg
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In the process of trying to understand holography I encountered a detail that I kind of knew before, but just now I realized I have no idea how it works, how is it even possible. I’m talking about a simple pinhole camera where supposedly no matter how tiny a hole is a beam of light would still contain all the information to construct a picture of the whole visual field.
  1. Am I mistaken in some way that a lense is actually necessary to obtain full information from the scene?
  2. Where is the limit, just how narrow a light beam can still contain all the information from the scene?
  3. What defines the resolution or amount of information in a light beam relative to beam width?
  4. If apparent from these questions, where exactly is my confusion, what did I miss or forget?
 
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Certainly every piece of a hologram contains a full view of the subject as seen from that piece. But the resolution will be limited to the diameter of the aperture (pin hole). The information that passes through the aperture is like an Fourier Transform with the "DC" information at the center and all other spatial information contained in areas beyond the center - the further from center, the higher the spatial frequency. So with a small pin hole, you will get a blurry image because it is missing the "edge" information. If you make the pin hole small enough, you will ultimately end up with a single blur that represents only the average illumination.
 
.Scott said:
Certainly every piece of a hologram contains a full view of the subject as seen from that piece. But the resolution will be limited to the diameter of the aperture (pin hole). The information that passes through the aperture is like an Fourier Transform with the "DC" information at the center and all other spatial information contained in areas beyond the center - the further from center, the higher the spatial frequency. So with a small pin hole, you will get a blurry image because it is missing the "edge" information. If you make the pin hole small enough, you will ultimately end up with a single blur that represents only the average illumination.

I guess my problem there is that I understand photography in the context where resolution is proportional to the number of photons hitting the detector, so less photons less information, but instead of missing pixels in high resolution image, we get low resolution image blurred over high resolution number of pixels.

Another thing, how about we put a lense in there and focus light at the pinhole - where is the limit now at how sharply we can focus the beam and narrow the pinhole while preserving resolution or the same amount of information?
 
... or just increase the exposure time. (but this won't work).

The number of photons is not the problem. A small enough portion of the hologram will simply not have enough information.

In normal photography, the f-stop is never reduced to a pin hole. If it was, problems with diffraction would become acute and they could not be resolved by increasing the photon count with a time exposure or intense light. At a certain point, your image is the diffraction pattern and the actual image takes a back seat.
 
Zelebg said:
I’m talking about a simple pinhole camera where supposedly no matter how tiny a hole is a beam of light would still contain all the information to construct a picture of the whole visual field.
What do you mean by a "beam" of light? I'm not certain I understand your concept here...
 
Zelebg said:
supposedly no matter how tiny a hole is a beam of light would still contain all the information to construct a picture of the whole visual field

This "supposedly" is not true as you state it. It's only true if the hole is much larger than the wavelength of the light. This is not an issue in a practical sense since even a pinhole a tenth of a millimeter wide (which is about as small as you can see with the naked eye) is still a thousand times larger than the wavelength of visible light. But "no matter how tiny" is still not correct; there are limits.
 
hutchphd said:
What do you mean by a "beam" of light? I'm not certain I understand your concept here...

From the responses I realize my problem is not in the relation between information and the width of a beam of light, but between information/resolution and the surface area of some holographic media.
.Scott said:
A small enough portion of the hologram will simply not have enough information.

It confuses me why is lack of information evenly distributed to still contain the whole picture in low resolution, instead of to manifest as missing parts of the picture. However, now I realize holographic “picture” is not directly relevant to photons, but interference, although I still can not say that resolves this mystery for me.
 

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