Infrared radiation from friction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms by which frictional forces lead to the emission of infrared radiation, exploring both atomic-level interactions and broader thermal concepts. Participants are examining the relationship between friction, heat generation, and infrared radiation, with a focus on theoretical models and conceptual understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that frictional forces cause infrared radiation through the excitation of electrons, which release photons as they return to lower energy states, although they acknowledge this may be an oversimplified model.
  • Another participant states that friction generates heat, which in turn produces infrared radiation, with the intensity of radiation depending on the temperature of the surface.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes the need to consider how molecular and crystal lattice behaviors change with temperature, indicating that heat involves more than just electron transitions.
  • One participant proposes that the surface can be viewed as a collection of oscillators, with increased friction leading to greater oscillation amplitudes, potentially enhancing infrared emission.
  • Another participant recommends starting with the concept of black body radiation as a foundational model for understanding the phenomena involved.
  • A participant expresses concern that their conceptual model may be flawed by treating light solely as a particle, suggesting that a wave perspective might be necessary for these interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the mechanisms of infrared radiation from friction, indicating that multiple competing models and interpretations exist. There is no consensus on a singular explanation or model.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the interactions involved, including the need for a deeper understanding of thermal dynamics and the behavior of materials at different temperatures. Some assumptions about the nature of light and heat may not be fully resolved.

Strange design
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Hello all,
I was driving down the road yesterday, and I realized that I don't really have a solid grasp on how frictional forces cause infrared radiation. Can anyone explain, or direct me to a resource that explains, how this happens at the atomic level?

I am thinking that the work done forcing the two surfaces together, against the EM forces, gives energy to the individual electrons, which move to a higher state, and then they release photons as they transition back to a lower state, but this is the oversimplified model I have in my head and is probably wrong.

Any help is appreciated.
 
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Friction causes heat.
Heat causes IR. Low heat, thermal IR. More heat near IR. More still, visible glowing.

Also, when friction causes sparks to fly - those sparks are material torn from the surface and raised to high temperatures.
 
Strange design said:
I am thinking that the work done forcing the two surfaces together, against the EM forces, gives energy to the individual electrons, which move to a higher state, and then they release photons as they transition back to a lower state, but this is the oversimplified model I have in my head and is probably wrong.

@.Scott gave you the answer. Heat is more than electrons changing energy states. You need to study how molecules and crystal lattices change behavior with temperature. The next step is how do solid bodies radiate as a function of temperature.

If you want to think it through one particle at a time, you'll have enough to keep your mind occupied for many many miles of driving. :rolleyes:
 
Ok, so should I rather consider the surface as a mass of oscillators already releasing IR, and then the friction increases the amplitude of the oscillations?
 
I would start with black body radiation. That is what is at the root. The article offers several models for what is happening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation

It can get very complex.

Human-Infrared.jpg
 
Thanks Anorlunda. I think where I am going wrong is that I am attempting to develop a conceptual model for these friction interactions where I am regarding light as a particle, but these interactions may only be able to be modeled with light regarded as a wave.
 

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