Integral w/ Unknown Table: Solve & Write in Closed-Form

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integral \int_0^{\gamma}(x)^{a}\left(x^2+x\right)^{b}\mbox{exp}(cx) K_{(2b)}\left(2d\sqrt{x^2+x}\right)\,dx, with participants exploring the possibility of expressing it in closed form using known functions. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects of integrals, numerical methods, and the properties of special functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for clarification on the function K_{(2b)}, which is identified as the modified Bessel function of the second kind.
  • Another participant questions the assumption that a closed-form expression exists for the integral, noting that "almost all" integrable functions do not have such expressions.
  • Some participants suggest that while numerical methods can be used to evaluate the integral, finding a closed-form solution is unlikely.
  • There is mention of the possibility of writing the integral of K as a series expansion, although this is complicated by the presence of other functions in the integral.
  • A participant expresses a desire to find a closed-form expression rather than resorting to numerical evaluation or plotting.
  • It is noted that even simpler forms of the integral, such as \int K_0\big(2\sqrt{x^2+x}\big)\,dx, do not yield closed forms in computational software like Maple.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not agree on the existence of a closed-form solution for the integral. While some express skepticism about its feasibility, others are exploring various methods to approach the problem, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations regarding the assumptions about the existence of closed-form solutions and the complexity introduced by the parameters involved in the integral.

EngWiPy
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Hello,

I have the following integral:

\int_0^{\gamma}(x)^{a}\left(x^2+x\right)^{b}\mbox{exp}(cx) K_{(2b)}\left(2d\sqrt{x^2+x}\right)\,dx<br />

but I didn't find any equivalent integral in the table of integrals. Now, how write this integral in closed-form expression using known functions?

Note: This is not a homework, but general treatment of an integral.

Regards
 
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W|A? This is the math forum, not the joke forum.

On a more serious note, we're going to need more information. For instance, ...
what the heck is the K thing?
why should this have a closed-form expression?
 
AUMathTutor said:
W|A? This is the math forum, not the joke forum.

On a more serious note, we're going to need more information. For instance, ...
what the heck is the K thing?
why should this have a closed-form expression?

K_{(2b)}(.) is the modified Bessel function of the second kind and (2b)^{th} order. I need it in closed form because I want to continue my derivation based on this integral.
 
Then the question becomes "Do you have reason to believe that such a closed form exists?" In a very precise sense "almost all" integrable functions do not have an integral that can be written a closed form in terms of known functions.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Then the question becomes "Do you have reason to believe that such a closed form exists?" In a very precise sense "almost all" integrable functions do not have an integral that can be written a closed form in terms of known functions.

Excluding the "closed form expression", is this integral is solvable? i.e.: can be found indirectly in the table of integrals? It needs an expert in math, who knows many integrals to connect them in according, I guess.
 
You can certainly calculate it numerically. But you probably won't be able to find it in a table of integrals because there probably isn't a closed-form solution. Tables of integrals only have expressions with closed-form solutions.
 
CRGreathouse said:
You can certainly calculate it numerically. But you probably won't be able to find it in a table of integrals because there probably isn't a closed-form solution. Tables of integrals only have expressions with closed-form solutions.

Ok, fine. How can I calculate this integral manually? what is the first step to do?
 
So, we simply can't solve the integral?
 
  • #10
saeddawoud said:
So, we simply can't solve the integral?

No, you can pick some numbers for a,b,c,d and gamma and then solve it numerically using something like Simpson’s rule. The problem is that, in it's current form, you've got five dimensions to play around with, and that's means a lot of individual data points that you'll have to numerically evaluate if you want to get some kind of overview of what that function is doing.

The more parameters that you can fix the easier it will be. If for example there was a way that you could sensibly pick numerical values for four of those five parameters then it would be easy get the data points to plot the integral versus the remaining free parameter.
 
  • #11
You may be able to write the integral of K as a series, at, say, x=0:

For b =1, ∫K(2)[x] dx = x K(2)[0] + x^2 K(2)'[0]/2 + ...
 
  • #12
EnumaElish said:
You may be able to write the integral of K as a series, at, say, x=0:

For b =1, ∫K(2)[x] dx = x K(2)[0] + x^2 K(2)'[0]/2 + ...

Yes, but the modified bessel function is multiplied by other functions in the integral, so, we can not separate it.
 
  • #13
uart said:
No, you can pick some numbers for a,b,c,d and gamma and then solve it numerically using something like Simpson’s rule. The problem is that, in it's current form, you've got five dimensions to play around with, and that's means a lot of individual data points that you'll have to numerically evaluate if you want to get some kind of overview of what that function is doing.

The more parameters that you can fix the easier it will be. If for example there was a way that you could sensibly pick numerical values for four of those five parameters then it would be easy get the data points to plot the integral versus the remaining free parameter.

All of these parameters are constants (a, b, c, and d). I neither want to plot the integral, nor evaluate it numerically, but I want in a some way to find a closed-form expression for this integral, if it exists.
 
  • #14
Maple does not compute a closed for even for

\int K_0\big(2\sqrt{x^2+x}\big)\,dx

so your more elaborate one is even less likely
 

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