Integrating through singularities

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the treatment of integrals involving singularities, specifically comparing the integrals of functions with removable and non-removable singularities. Participants explore the implications of these singularities on the evaluation of integrals and the concept of principal value.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the treatment of integrals around singularities, noting the difference in handling the integral of 1/x^3 versus sin(x)/x.
  • Another participant argues that the limit of sin(x)/x as x approaches 0 is 1, while the limit of 1/x^3 is infinity, suggesting that this distinction justifies different treatments of the two integrals.
  • A participant adds that the principal value of the integral of 1/x^3 can be calculated, but emphasizes that the result depends on how the limit is approached, indicating that different approaches can yield different results.
  • One participant questions the validity of integrating through the removable discontinuity of sin(x)/x, suggesting it may be akin to taking a principal part.
  • Another participant counters that the limits of integration from both sides of the removable singularity converge independently, implying that it is acceptable to integrate through it.
  • A different perspective is introduced, suggesting that viewing the integral as a measure of the area between the curve and the x-axis may provide clarity.
  • Lastly, a participant points out that while log(|x|) also has a singularity at x=0, its integral over a symmetric interval is well-defined, implying that not all singularities lead to undefined integrals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to handle integrals with singularities, particularly regarding the distinction between removable and non-removable singularities. There is no consensus on the implications of these distinctions for the evaluation of integrals.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the treatment of singularities can depend on the method of integration and the limits taken, highlighting the complexity of evaluating such integrals.

dsr39
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I am a little bit confused about dealing with integrals around singularities because my professor seems to treat some situations more rigorously than others.

We talked this integral and said

\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{1}{x^3} dx = undefined

This seems a little bit unintuitive to me because clearly we have an odd function, so no matter what happens as you approach 0, you should get equal cancellations from the left and right sides... but since you cannot say EXACTLY what happens at x = 0, I can see calling this indeterminate.


But then when we came across this integral

\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{sin(x)}{x} dx

and integrated right through the removable singularity without any problems. It seems hypocritical to deal with this one by just appealing to intuition and saying that the part near x=0 doesn't "blow up" so it has a negligible contribution when we don't in fact know what it does AT x=0.

Is there a good reason why in this case we can just integrate straight through the singularity even though we have an undefined value at x = 0?
 
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I don't know if this answer is satisfactory to you, but

\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{\sin x}{x} = 1
while
\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{1}{x^3} = \infty

So I don't agree with your argument that
we don't in fact know what it does AT x=0.
You even said it yourself: it is a removable singularity, while in the first integral it is not. The word removable already indicates that it's not a real "hard" singularity.

In fact, your idea of integrating 1/x^3 while leaving out some small neighbourhood of the origin and then shrinking that to zero is very much possible, it is called principle value. In this case, you would find
\mathcal P \int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{1}{x^3} dx = \lim_{\epsilon \downarrow 0} \left[<br /> \int_{-\infty}^{-\epsilon}\frac{1}{x^3} dx + \int_{\epsilon}^{\infty}\frac{1}{x^3} dx<br /> \right] = \lim_{\epsilon \downarrow 0} 0 = 0.
 
Last edited:
To add to what CompuChip said about the principal value integral: note that the resulting value you get depends on how you take the limit of the integral bounds. Because the limit was taken symmetrically in the example he gave the result was zero. However, I could just as well do

\lim_{\epsilon \rightarrow 0} \left[ \int_{-\infty}^{-2\epsilon}\frac{1}{x^3} dx + \int_{\epsilon}^{\infty}\frac{1}{x^3} dx\right] = \lim_{\epsilon \rightarrow 0} -\frac{1}{2}\left[\frac{1}{4\epsilon^2} - \frac{1}{\epsilon^2}\right] \neq 0.

This is why the integral of 1/x^3 is typically left as undefined: in general you DON'T get equal contributions to the integral from both sides! Taking the limit in different ways can give different results! The principal value integral does turn out to be useful in physics, but as it doesn't give the only possible result of an integral with a singularity, such integrals are typically regarded as undefined.
 
I have done principle parts, but even though sin(x)/x converges to 1 in the limit that x approaches 0, if we wish to integrate directly through the point x=0 how can we ignore the fact that it is undefined at 0. It is a removable discontinuity, but it is still a discontinuity.

Isn't integrating through the removable discontinuity as if it weren't there, essentially taking a principle part?
 
dsr39 said:
Isn't integrating through the removable discontinuity as if it weren't there, essentially taking a principle part?

No, because the two limits

\lim_{a \rightarrow 0^+} \int_{a}^{\infty} \frac{\sin x}{x} \; dx

and

\lim_{b \rightarrow 0^-} \int_{-\infty}^{b} \frac{\sin x}{x} \; dx

converge independently.
 
Instead of thinking of the integral as a procedure (going along x in a certain direction and adding up rectangles), it may be useful to think of the integral as the (signed) measure of the 2D region between 0 and the curve.
 
These replies are all helpful. Thanks for the feedback.
 
Log(|x|) also "blows up" at x=0, but the integral \int_{-1}^1 Log{|x|}dx is well defined. Anything less singular than 1/x is integrable.
 

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