Internal combustion engines founded in GBR and car industry collapse

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  • #36
OmCheeto said:
Compared to the rest of the world, UK vehicle production seems to have been quite stable over the last 73 years.
But if you increase the scale, you will see a significant fall through the 1970s.
 
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  • #37
Vanadium 50 said:
I think one can safely conclude that the UK car collapse was not caused by something that happened 50 years later.
I talk in general, because UK economics fall after leave EU.
berkeman said:
Let's be careful not to digress into a political discussion... Thanks.
But this is general forum
 
  • #38
Baluncore said:
But if you increase the scale, you will see a significant fall through the 1970s.

One man's 'significant fall' is another man's 'correction from a bubble'. It doesn't look bad to me at all. Just normal fluctuations, IMHO.

UK vehicle prodution 1950 to 2022 2023-11-10 at 00.46.21.png


Not sure about the UK, but I've noticed a huge rise in the number of electric scooters here in the colonies. I've actually been researching buying one as traffic is so bad here that a scooter would probably make it much easier to get to the market and back. I suspect global vehicle production will go down for quite some time. And with it, the UK's numbers.
 
  • #39
user079622 said:
But this is general forum
Doesn't matter. Political discussions are against the PF rules, and you wouldn't want to break any rules here, would you? :wink:
 
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  • #40
OmCheeto said:
It doesn't look bad to me at all. Just normal fluctuations, IMHO.
Cars built in the UK prior to 1980 were UK designed.
During the 1970s, imports began to displace local production.
The bubble that burst, was the manufacture in the UK, of UK designed cars.

Take a look at; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Dagenham
It no longer assembles vehicles, but it builds diesel engines for use overseas in Ford and Mazda vehicle plants. In the statistics, engines are not counted as vehicles manufactured, until the VIN is issued outside the UK.
 
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  • #42
Are Brits really lazy like video suggest, what are their work habits?

I know Germans and Japanese in person, they are like robots, these type of mind set is ideal for success..
 
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  • #43
There is some truth in all the points made, but there cannot be only one reason why it collapsed. They all played a part.

It takes a decade to build a new efficient factory, and to start volume production. Germany and Japan were forced to do that after WWII. Meanwhile, Britain used its old inefficient infrastructure and worn machines, during those 10 years to increase sales, but that all began to collapse, when it had to compete, in the international market, with the newly tooled up Germany and Japan. Japan only lost the first physical battle in their claimed 'hundred year economic war'.

If new machines being installed in British factories would last for 25 years, then they could only be depreciated at 4% PA. Overseas manufacturers used shorter, or zero depreciation schedules to build new factories. There was no incentive for the British to invest in building new factories in Britain, but overseas companies could lease-lend equipment, at low foreign depreciation rates, to their subsidiaries in Britain. The principle weapon, used for international economic warfare, is dynamically changing economic factors.

To compete in the international market requires a dynamically levelled playing field. Over the last 20 years in Australia, we have lost the last of the car industry. Depreciation rates have responded by falling from 25 years, down to 3 years, and for many things, can be written off the books in the year of purchase. That tells us something about the financial agility needed by a company, to survive in the competitive world market.

British production workers did not stop long for tea and biscuits during the day. If management had paid a fair living wage, and provided a safe workplace, the skilled workers would not have left the industry, and those who stayed would not have gone on strike. The inefficiency of the old industrial structure, caused management to underpay and exploit the workforce, in a failed attempt to survive. The 'British owned' factories could not be rebuilt economically, so the fate of the British owned industry was sealed.
 
  • #44
Baluncore said:
There is some truth in all the points made, but there cannot be only one reason why it collapsed. They all played a part.

It takes a decade to build a new efficient factory, and to start volume production. Germany and Japan were forced to do that after WWII. Meanwhile, Britain used its old inefficient infrastructure and worn machines, during those 10 years to increase sales, but that all began to collapse, when it had to compete, in the international market, with the newly tooled up Germany and Japan. Japan only lost the first physical battle in their claimed 'hundred year economic war'.

If new machines being installed in British factories would last for 25 years, then they could only be depreciated at 4% PA. Overseas manufacturers used shorter, or zero depreciation schedules to build new factories. There was no incentive for the British to invest in building new factories in Britain, but overseas companies could lease-lend equipment, at low foreign depreciation rates, to their subsidiaries in Britain. The principle weapon, used for international economic warfare, is dynamically changing economic factors.

To compete in the international market requires a dynamically levelled playing field. Over the last 20 years in Australia, we have lost the last of the car industry. Depreciation rates have responded by falling from 25 years, down to 3 years, and for many things, can be written off the books in the year of purchase. That tells us something about the financial agility needed by a company, to survive in the competitive world market.

British production workers did not stop long for tea and biscuits during the day. If management had paid a fair living wage, and provided a safe workplace, the skilled workers would not have left the industry, and those who stayed would not have gone on strike. The inefficiency of the old industrial structure, caused management to underpay and exploit the workforce, in a failed attempt to survive. The 'British owned' factories could not be rebuilt economically, so the fate of the British owned industry was sealed.
In comments below of my video, people also write that engineering was poor, car was not realiable, failed all the time...etc
 
  • #45
user079622 said:
In comments below of my video, people also write that engineering was poor, car was not realiable, failed all the time...etc
That must be partly true of all cheap cars built anywhere.

"Failed all the time" is an emotional exaggeration. The parts were available, at low cost, so it was repaired several times, and the car was not replaced. There is a tradeoff between purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, and the cost of repair.

Over-engineering of cars is also a bad thing, because it increases design and manufacturing costs. Rovers were well-designed, but more expensive, a professional's car. Rolls-Royce were reliable, but very expensive and costly to run, an aristocrat's car.
 
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  • #46
@Baluncore

People from outside dont understand how such a big strategic mistakes can happen to one nation, ruining biggiest car industry in Europe, now Brexit ....
 
  • #47
user079622 said:
People from outside dont understand how such a big strategic mistakes can happen to one nation, ruining biggiest car industry in Europe, now Brexit ....
Who are those misinformed "people from outside" ?

Brexit is politics, so has more than two sides. For example, three times now, Britain has worked with the USA, to end a war in Europe. There was WWI, WW2 and then the Cold War. Maybe it is better for Europe, that Britain is somewhat separated from Europe, because based on history, it is happening now, and is probably going to happen again.

Britain survived alone through 1939-40. It provided the base for the USA, that ended the German Third Reich. Britain was totally exhausted by that fight. The British car industry was the oldest in Europe, its collapse was triggered by the economic instability following WWII. If the German blitzkrieg had done more damage to the British car industry, then in the long term, the outcome for the British industry might have been different. Rebuilding German industry after WWII was critically important for Europe then, and now. The USA assisted German reconstruction after the war, it did not support Britain economically. It could be said that the British car industry was sacrificed for stability in Europe. Don't blame the British for Europe's mistakes.
 
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  • #48
Thread closed temporarily for Moderation...
 
  • #49
user079622 said:
Are Brits really lazy like video suggest, what are their work habits?
After a brief Mentor discussion, this thread is too political and will remain closed.
 
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