Interpreting a thermodynamics formula using a picture

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on interpreting the thermodynamics formula ##pv=t##, which resembles the ideal gas law but incorporates temperature in energy units. Participants explore the implications of isothermal processes, specifically isothermal compression and expansion, and how these relate to changes in the variable Gamma (##\Gamma##). The conversation emphasizes the importance of visual representation, particularly through PV diagrams, to illustrate the relationships between pressure, volume, and Gamma during these processes.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the ideal gas law and its implications.
  • Familiarity with isothermal processes in thermodynamics.
  • Knowledge of PV diagrams and their significance in thermodynamic analysis.
  • Basic comprehension of the variable Gamma (##\Gamma=vp^2##) in thermodynamics.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the derivation and applications of the ideal gas law.
  • Study isothermal processes in detail, focusing on their mathematical representations.
  • Learn how to construct and interpret PV diagrams for various thermodynamic processes.
  • Explore the significance of the variable Gamma in different thermodynamic contexts.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for students and professionals in thermodynamics, particularly those studying gas laws, isothermal processes, and graphical representations of thermodynamic principles.

PhysicsKush
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Homework Statement
$$ \frac{\partial \Gamma}{\partial p} \Bigg|_{t} = \frac{\partial \Gamma}{\partial p} \Bigg|_{v} + \frac{\partial v}{\partial p}\Bigg|_{t} \frac{\partial \Gamma}{\partial v} \Bigg|_{p}$$

Interpret this formula by using words or a picture (ie. the change in Gamma when we pressurize a gas along an isotherm, is equal to...).
Relevant Equations
$$ \Gamma(p,v) = vp^2$$
$$ pv=t$$
I notice that ##pv=t## looks like the ideal gas law but with ##T## in units of energy. I know that ##pV = \text{constant}## means that the pressure of a gas decreases as you expand it (Boyle-Mariotte's law), explaining for instance how we breathe.

I guess I could put everything in words even though it will be a paragraph long and probably incorrect :

"The change in Gamma when we pressurize a gas along an isotherm is equal to the change in Gamma when we pressurize that gas along an isovolumetric process , with additionally the product between the change in volume during pressurization along an isotherm and the change in Gamma under a dynamic contrast along an isobar",

but I'm curious to see how this could be represented with a picture.
 
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Here's a hint. Start out by drawing a short section of an isotherm on a PV diagram.
 
Chestermiller said:
Here's a hint. Start out by drawing a short section of an isotherm on a PV diagram.
Thank you for your insightful hint. I came to the conclusion, that the formula as defined represents an isothermal compression process of an ideal gas.
 
Mihail Anghelici said:
Thank you for your insightful hint. I came to the conclusion, that the formula as defined represents an isothermal compression process of an ideal gas.
Let's see your diagram, showing how the equation plays out.
 
Chestermiller said:
Let's see your diagram, showing how the equation plays out.

After reconsidering,I think it is actually an isothermal expansion since the slope ##\frac{\partial v}{\partial p}\big|_{t}## is multiplied by ##\frac{\partial \Gamma}{\partial v}\big|_{p}## ,which is along the ##x## direction.
 

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Mihail Anghelici said:
After reconsidering,I think it is actually an isothermal expansion since the slope ##\frac{\partial v}{\partial p}\big|_{t}## is multiplied by ##\frac{\partial \Gamma}{\partial v}\big|_{p}## ,which is along the ##x## direction.
What they are looking for is two alternate paths connecting two adjacent point on the isotherm. One path is directly between the two points. The other has one segment at constant pressure and a second segment at constant volume. The diagram should show that the two alternate paths deliver the same change in gamma.
 
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Chestermiller said:
What they are looking for is two alternate paths connecting two adjacent point on the isotherm. One path is directly between the two points. The other has one segment at constant pressure and a second segment at constant volume. The diagram should show that the two alternate paths deliver the same change in gamma.
I think I successfully illustrated what you described to me. If that is indeed correct, I'm very curious to know how how you were able to interpret the given PDE formula and come up with this conclusion, because I'm not able to do that. Thank you again sir.
 

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Mihail Anghelici said:
I think I successfully illustrated what you described to me. If that is indeed correct, I'm very curious to know how how you were able to interpret the given PDE formula and come up with this conclusion, because I'm not able to do that. Thank you again sir.
I don't know. Just experience, I guess.
 
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Chestermiller said:
I don't know. Just experience, I guess.
Well, I can not submit this picture since I don't understand how we arrived at this conclusion. I shall keep on searching for an alternate answer. Thank you again for your help !
 
  • #10
OK. I'm going to take another shot at this. On a PV diagram, show some lines of constant T, and some crossing lines of constant ##\Gamma=vp^2##. Then show the line for a change in ##\Gamma## along a line of constant T. I think that this will make more sense to you.
 
  • #11
1599954197996.png

If we increase pressure by ##\delta P## at constant temperature, the function ##\Gamma## increases from ##\Gamma_1## to ##\Gamma_2##. But. if we increase pressure by ##\delta P## at constant volume, the function ##\Gamma## increases by more, from ##\Gamma_1## to ##\Gamma_3##. So, in the latter case, if we want to get the change and constant temperature, we need to add an additional term equal to ##\left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial P}\right)_T\left(\frac{\partial \Gamma}{\partial V}\right)_P\delta P=-(\Gamma_3-\Gamma_2)##
 
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  • #12
Chestermiller said:
View attachment 269284
If we increase pressure by ##\delta P## at constant temperature, the function ##\Gamma## increases from ##\Gamma_1## to ##\Gamma_2##. But. if we increase pressure by ##\delta P## at constant volume, the function ##\Gamma## increases by more, from ##\Gamma_1## to ##\Gamma_3##. So, in the latter case, if we want to get the change and constant temperature, we need to add an additional term equal to ##\left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial P}\right)_T\left(\frac{\partial \Gamma}{\partial V}\right)_P\delta P=-(\Gamma_3-\Gamma_2)##
WOW ! I think I understand now ,all the pieces are connecting together !

Thank you so much for having persisted with me throughtout this. Couldn't thank you enough sir.
 

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