Interpreting Diagrams: Why is C_v Used in Isobaric Process?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of a diagram related to an isobaric process in thermodynamics, specifically addressing the use of specific heat capacities in calculating changes in internal energy. Participants are exploring the relationship between internal energy, temperature change, and the conditions of the process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the specific heat capacity at constant volume, C_v, is used in the calculation of internal energy change (ΔU) during an isobaric process where pressure is constant and volume changes.
  • Another participant explains that for an ideal gas, internal energy is a function of temperature alone, and thus the relationship ΔU = nC_vΔT holds regardless of the process type.
  • A participant acknowledges understanding the explanation for constant volume processes but seeks clarification on its application to the isobaric process in the specific problem.
  • It is noted that the internal energy change can be expressed with a proportionality constant that is independent of the process conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of C_v in the context of an isobaric process. While some assert that C_v can be used for ΔU calculations, others seek further clarification on this point, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the assumptions regarding the use of specific heat capacities in different thermodynamic processes, nor does it clarify the implications of using C_v in an isobaric context.

yklin_tux
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Hello All, I am interpreting a diagram from the following question.
(I didnt have a chance to take thermo and I learned it by myself so I might have some problems)

http://www.physicsgrad.com/pgre/9677-15

I understand that I can just do ΔW and I get the right answer,
but upon doing it with the specific heats, I am a little confused.

The isobaric process (B->C) specifically:

I looked at this solution:
http://grephysics.net/ans/9677/15

Why, in the calculation of U, is there C_v present?
I thought the pressure was constant, and the volume changes,
then why is U = C_v(ΔT)??

Any advise appreciated.
 
Science news on Phys.org
You ask a good question.

For n moles of an ideal gas, we can show that [itex]U = n\frac{\nu}{2}RT,[/itex]
in which [itex]\nu[/itex] is 3 for a monatomic gas (such as helium) and approximately 5 for a diatomic gas such as oxygen.

Thus we have [itex]\Delta U = n\frac{\nu}{2}R\Delta T[/itex].

Thus there is a proportionality constant, [itex]n\frac{\nu}{2}R,[/itex] between [itex]\Delta U[/itex] and [itex]\Delta T[/itex] which is fixed for any particular sample of gas, and is independent of whether the gas experiences changes at constant volume, constant pressure, or under any other conditions.

Now, for a constant volume change the heat flow Q is equal to the rise in internal energy, since no work is done.
So [itex]Q = \Delta U[/itex] [constant volume!]

But, by definition of the molar heat capacity, [itex]C_v,[/itex] [itex]Q = nC_v \Delta T[/itex] [constant volume!]

So [itex]\Delta U = nC_v \Delta T[/itex]

But we showed at the beginning that the proportionality constant between [itex]\Delta U[/itex] and [itex]\Delta T[/itex] is fixed for any particular sample of gas, and is independent of whether the gas experiences changes at constant volume, constant pressure, or under any other conditions. So having shown for constant volume that the proportionality constant is [itex]nC_v[/itex], this must be the proportionality constant for all changes.

In other words, [itex]nC_v[/itex] is an alternative way of writing [itex]n\frac{\nu}{2}R[/itex].
 
Last edited:
Philip,

Thank you for that explanation.

I understand everything you say when there is constant volume, etc,
but in that problem (first link), the B->C process has constant pressure,
and volume changes, so work is being done...

What you are saying is that for ΔU calculation for that specific process I can use
C_v?
 
A characteristic of an ideal gas is that the internal energy is a function only of temperature, irrespective of the process.
 
yklyn Yes, that's just what I'm saying. nCv is the proportionality constant between ΔU and ΔT.

The key passage in my earlier post was the penultimate paragraph, staring "But we showed...".
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
8K
  • · Replies 89 ·
3
Replies
89
Views
38K