Intro to Power Systems: Calculating Power

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    Power calculation
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating power in an electrical circuit, specifically focusing on real power (P) and reactive power (Q) as functions of the phase angle (ψ), as well as instantaneous power. The context includes theoretical and mathematical reasoning related to power systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a circuit with given RMS voltage and current values and attempts to calculate P and Q, expressing uncertainty about their calculations and how to differentiate P and Q from their results.
  • Another participant questions the configuration of the circuit, suggesting that it should include a load (R, L, or C) and asks if it makes sense to consider only ideal sources without additional data.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the nature of the sources (DC vs. AC) and the implications of the given information, indicating that the scenario may be unrealistic.
  • A later reply provides formulas for P and Q from a textbook, suggesting that the question can be treated as a mathematical exercise despite its unphysical nature.
  • Another participant discusses the complex power (S) and its relationship to P and Q, proposing a method to derive instantaneous power using trigonometric identities and expressions for voltage and current.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express confusion and skepticism about the question's setup, indicating a lack of consensus on its validity. Multiple competing views regarding the circuit configuration and the nature of the sources remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the problem's assumptions, such as the absence of a load and the ambiguity regarding the types of sources involved. There are also unresolved mathematical steps in deriving P, Q, and instantaneous power.

SumDood_
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Homework Statement
Calculate the power in the given circuit
Relevant Equations
P=IV
Help me understand what I am missing. So this is the circuit:
1696847734105.png

Given:
##V_{RMS} = 120V##
##I_{RMS}= 10A##
##v=Re \{Ve^{jwt}\}##
##i=Re \{Ie^{j(wt-\psi)}\}##
(a) Calculate and sketch real and reactive power P and Q as a function of the angle ψ
(b) Calculate and sketch the instantaneous power

What I've done so far:
##V = 120\sqrt{2}cos(\omega t)##
##I = 10\sqrt{2}cos(\omega t-\psi)##
##
\begin{align*}
P = iv &= 120\sqrt{2}cos(\omega t) \cdot 10\sqrt{2}cos(\omega t-\psi) \\
&= 120\sqrt{2}\frac{1}{2}(e^{j\omega t}+e^{-j\omega t}) \cdot 10\sqrt{2}\frac{1}{2}(e^{j(\omega t-\psi)}+e^{-j(\omega t-\psi)}) \\
&= 600(e^{j\psi} + e^{-j\psi} + e^{j(2\omega t - \psi)} + e^{-j(2\omega t - \psi)}) \\
&= 2400(cos(2\omega t - \psi) + cos(\psi))
\end{align*}
##

I am not sure if the work I've done is correct. If it is, I don't understand how to differentiate P and Q from the solution I have worked out.
Any help is appreciated!
 
Last edited:
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First, which device is delivering power and which is receiving?
Then I would approach this using phsor notation.
 
My knowledge of EE is a bit basic but shouldn't your circuit contain a load (R and/or L and/or C)? Does it make sense to consider a circuit consisting of only an ideal current source and an ideal voltage source? Or are the sources non-ideal and you have [edit - that should be 'haven't'] supplied all the data?
 
Last edited:
scottdave said:
First, which device is delivering power and which is receiving?
Then I would approach this using phsor notation.
What I have provided is what is mentioned in the question. Let's assume that the current source is delivering power.
 
Steve4Physics said:
My knowledge of EE is a bit basic but shouldn't your circuit contain a load (R and/or L and/or C)? Does it make sense to consider a circuit consisting of only an ideal current source and an ideal voltage source? Or are the sources non-ideal and you have suppled all the data?
You are right that this kind of circuit won't exist in the real world, but the question I've described is as stated in the book.
 
With the current direction shown, the voltage source (I assume) shown as DC, and the text giving a voltage in RMS (which implies AC), just how much more confusing could it get?
 
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It seems that everyone is finding this question to be weird. So, I'll post the solution that is at the end of the book:
##P = \frac{1}{2}VIcos(\psi)##
##Q = \frac{1}{2}VIsin(\psi)##
Instantaneous power
##p=2Pcos^{2}(\omega t)+Qsin(2\omega t)##
 
SumDood_ said:
It seems that everyone is finding this question to be weird. So, I'll post the solution that is at the end of the book:
##P = \frac{1}{2}VIcos(\psi)##
##Q = \frac{1}{2}VIsin(\psi)##
Instantaneous power
##p=2Pcos^{2}(\omega t)+Qsin(2\omega t)##
I suppose you can just treat the question as a maths exercise and ignore the (unphysical!) physics.

Working backwards from the expected answers gives some clues.

The complex power, ##S##, is ##S= P+jQ## where ##P## is the required real power and ##Q## is the required reactive power. So you need to find a (complex) expression for ##S##.

According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power) the complex power, ##S##, is given by ##S = \hat V \hat I^*## where (in this question) ##\hat V = V_{rms}e^{j \omega t}## and ##\hat I = I_{rms}e^{j(\omega t- \phi)}##. Note the use of the complex conjugate.

To get the instantaneous power I guess one way is to evaluate ##p(t) = v(i)i(t)## with ##v(t) = V\cos (\omega t)## and ##i(t) = I \cos(\omega t - \phi)## and use some trig’ identities, and the expressions for ##P## and##Q##, to get the answer in the required format.
 
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