Invariance of the speed of light

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the invariance of the speed of light as described by the law of addition of velocities in the context of special relativity. Participants explore the mathematical derivation and implications of this invariance, particularly focusing on the transformation of velocities in the x-y plane and the preservation of the null cone under Lorentz boosts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the law of addition of velocities and notes that if u' equals the speed of light (c), then u must also equal c, which is essential for preserving the null cone.
  • Another participant refers to a method outlined by Szekeres that purportedly demonstrates this invariance but does not provide details.
  • Several participants discuss the use of angles in the transformation equations, expressing frustration that their attempts to apply these transformations lead to complex computations without clear results.
  • A later reply suggests using specific substitutions for u'_x and u'_y in terms of angles and c, indicating a potential path forward for the calculations.
  • One participant expresses satisfaction upon finding a simpler arrangement of terms that clarifies the derivation, indicating that the computations can be straightforward when approached correctly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and success with the mathematical derivation, indicating that while some find clarity, others struggle with the computations. There is no consensus on a single method that resolves all issues, and multiple approaches are discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention challenges in the computations, including the need to manage terms carefully and the potential for confusion when applying the Pythagorean theorem. There are unresolved aspects regarding the application of the transformation equations and the assumptions involved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying special relativity, particularly in understanding the mathematical foundations of velocity transformations and the invariance of the speed of light.

littleHilbert
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Hello!

Consider the law of addition of velocities for a particle moving in the x-y plane:

[itex]u_x=\frac{u'_x+v}{1+u'_xv/c^2},\, u_y=\frac{u'_y}{\gamma(1+u'_xv/c^2)}[/itex]

In the book by Szekeres on mathematical physics on p.238 it is said that if u'=c, then it follows from the above formulae that u=c, i.e. invariance of the speed of light under the given Lorentz boost, which is of course exactly what we wish, since a Lorentz boost must preserve the null cone.

The weird thing is that when I start with [itex]c^2=(u')^2=(u'_x)^2+(u'_y)^2[/itex] and try to apply the above formulae to simply get [itex](u'_x)^2+(u'_y)^2=(u_x)^2+(u_y)^2[/itex], i.e. working backwards towards the invariance of the null cone, I get quickly lost in the actual computation, because it seems to be leading nowhere…nothing cancels out. It doesn't matter which boost one takes…it doesn't seem to work (at the moment).

It can't be that hard. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, and can't imagine that I missed some concept. Did anybody already see how the computation goes? Is there anything one should pay attention to? Thanks
 
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On the same page, Szekeres outlines a method that shows this.
 
If you mean using the angles in [itex]u_x=u \cos \theta,\, u_y=u \sin \theta, \, u'_x=u' \cos \theta',\, u'_y=u' \sin \theta'[/itex] …does it really help? I tried to plug them in, too…but same thing…the computation gets lengthier and seems to be getting nowhere. There is actually no more on that page, except for the relation between the angles.
 
littleHilbert said:
If you mean using the angles in [itex]u_x=u \cos \theta,\, u_y=u \sin \theta, \, u'_x=u' \cos \theta',\, u'_y=u' \sin \theta'[/itex] …does it really help? I tried to plug them in, too…but same thing…the computation gets lengthier and seems to be getting nowhere. There is actually no more on that page, except for the relation between the angles.

Yes, use ##u'_x = c \cos \theta'## and ##u'_y = c \sin \theta'## in

[itex]\frac{u_x}{c} = \frac{u'_x+v}{c+u'_xv/c},\, \frac{u_y}{c}=\frac{u'_{y}/\gamma}{(c+u'_xv/c)}[/itex],

and calculate ##\left( u_{x}/c \right)^2 + \left( u_{y}/c \right)^2##.

In ##u_y##, keep the ##1/\gamma## in the numerator, so that ##1/\gamma^2 = 1 - v^2 / c^2##. Expand the squares, and write ##\sin^2 \theta' = 1 - \cos^2 \theta'##.
 
Oh yes, that sounds much more promising! I'll try this now…thanks in advance! :-)
 
OK, that was trivial...I knew it must be easy…if one arranges things the right way. I too was using the pythagorean theorem in order to get rid of some terms. But at the same time I was computing the difference [itex]u^2_x+u^2_y-c^2[/itex] to get 0…and yeah…somehow fell asleep.
Many thanks, George.
 

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