News Iraqi unrest, Syrian unrest, and ISIS/ISIL/Daesh

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The Iraqi government is facing imminent collapse under insurgent pressure, with ISIS reportedly taking control of Mosul. The U.S. has refused military aid to Iraq, primarily to avoid appearing to support Prime Minister al-Maliki, whose Shiite leadership could be seen as backing Iran. Concerns are rising that if insurgents gain control of Baghdad, it could lead to increased conflict with Iran. The Iraqi army, despite being well-trained and outnumbering ISIS, has shown reluctance to engage, leaving military equipment behind in their retreat. The situation is evolving into a civil war, raising fears of broader regional instability and the potential resurgence of terrorism globally.
  • #931
fargoth said:
Jaysh Al-Islam's leader, Jahran Alloush, has been killed by the Syrian air force.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ush-leader-syria-rebel-group-killed-airstrike
Another lunatic down, good riddance.
Why do you describe Alloush as a lunatic, as opposed the leader of the Syrian government that killed him, Assad? The article you reference indicates Jaysh opposes ISIS.
 
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  • #932
mheslep said:
Why do you describe Alloush as a lunatic, as opposed the leader of the Syrian government that killed him, Assad? The article you reference indicates Jaysh opposes ISIS.

Al-Qaeda opposes ISIS as well, doesn't make them part of "the good guys".
Just read the things he said (apart from interviews he gave to western media, in which he backtracks on everything he says to his people).

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a dangerous strategy.
Assad is also fighting ISIS... If I had to chose, he's better than the Salafis (not that I consider him as one of the "good guys" - these are really hard to come by in Syria, I assume most of them migrated away).
 
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  • #933
mheslep said:
Why do you describe Alloush as a lunatic, as opposed the leader of the Syrian government that killed him, Assad? The article you reference indicates Jaysh opposes ISIS.
I was doing some reading into the ideology of both Jaysh al-Islam and Ahrar al-Sham after I heard the news that Alloush was killed in an air strike. They do appear to be Salafist Jihadist, with marginal differences in ideology from ISIS or al-Qaeda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam#Ideology

Here are some relevant points from the wikipedia article
Alloush said that Alawites are "more infidel than Jews and Christians." (أكفر من اليهود والنصارى), addressing the Alawites as "Nusayri" (النصيرية).[49] which was originally from a fatwa about Alawites issued by Ibn Taymiyyah.[50]

Alloush claimed that "Our nation has a great thirst for an Islamic state" and attacked democracy after an interviewer asked Alloush "Can you accept a civil, democratic, and pluralistic state".[51][52][53][54][55][56][57]
Jaysh al-Islam ex-leader Zahran Alloush gave a speech on the merits of Hajj in 2013 and praised Usama bin Laden, addressing him by the honorific "Sheikh" and the honorific "rahimahu Allah" for making Hajj around 91 or 92 when Alloush was at the Islamic University of Medina.[40] Alloush addressed the Al-Qaeda organization Jabhat al-Nusra as "our brothers", saying that "The summary of this issue is that we in Jaish Al-Islam praise our brothers of the Nusrah Front and we don't consider them Khawarij as is propagated against us, We fight alongside them and they fight alongside us".[41]

Their criticism of ISIS seems to be mainly because ISIS is killing muslims not just "infidels".
The Islamic Front criticized ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant), saying: "They killed the people of Islam and leave the idol worshippers" (يقتلون أهل الإسلام ويدعون أهل الأوثان) and "They use the verses talking about the disbelievers and implement it on the Muslims" (ينزلون أيات نزلت في الكفار على المسلمين).[63]

So yes he does seem like a lunatic with in fact an identical ideology as al-Qaeda and his opposition to ISIS seems only a matter of competition.
 
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  • #935
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  • #936
There's disagreement within US government circles. It doesn't get much coverage in our daily news.

https://www.rt.com/usa/312050-dia-flynn-islamic-state/
Al Jazeera notes that Lieutenant General Michael Flynn became “the highest ranking intelligence official to go on record,” saying the US and other states, notably Turkey and the Gulf Arab states, were sponsoring Al-Qaeda-led rebels in Syria with political support and weapons in an attempt to overthrow President Bashar Assad.
http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-t-flynn-fired-from-dia-2014-4
Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, is being pushed out after a series of clashes over his leadership style, report Greg Miller and Adam Goldman at The Washington Post citing current and former U.S. officials.

He got crosswise with state dept.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2015/08/245836.htm said:
MR KIRBY: Yeah, let me – can I come back to you? Because – go ahead. You’ve had your hand up for a while, go ahead.

QUESTION: Thank you. Yeah. The former director of Defense Intelligence Agency Michael Flynn said it was, quote/unquote, the “willful decision” of the Administration to support and to coordinate arms transfers to the insurgents in Syria knowing, based on an intelligence report from 2012, that the major driving forces behind the insurgents in Syria were Salafists, the Muslim Brotherhood, and al-Qaida in Iraq, or what we know – what we now call ISIL. So that intelligence report from 2012 was released under FOIA and it also says, quote, “There is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist principality in eastern Syria, and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime,” end of quote.

Do you admit – would you admit, like Michael Flynn did, that in 2012 the U.S. supported the rise of the forces that we now call ISIL in order to defeat Assad?

MR KIRBY: I’m not going to speak to intelligence reports. I’m certainly not going to talk to an intelligence report that I haven’t seen. Let me just remind everybody what our positions are. We have been supporting a moderate Syrian opposition,
http://www.spiegel.de/international...ef-discusses-development-of-is-a-1065131.html
SPIEGEL ONLINE: How should the West fight this enemy?
...
.....
Flynn: We have to work constructively with Russia. Whether we like it or not, Russia made a decision to be there (in Syria) and to act militarily. They are there, and this has dramatically changed the dynamic. So you can't say Russia is bad, they have to go home. It's not going to happen. Get real...

All i know is what i read.. and much of that is inconsistent at best.
 
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  • #939
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  • #940
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  • #941
I am hesitant to share something from the Telegraph, but this one is important IMO:

If the Royal Air Force can't drop food to Madaya, we shouldn't bother having an air force at all
(Warning: contains pictures of starving children)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12091006/If-the-RAF-cant-drop-food-to-Madaya-in-Syria-we-shouldnt-bother-having-an-air-force-at-all.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook
 
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  • #942
Daesh's double standards sow growing disillusion
http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-states-double-standards-sow-070553933.html
"It's a criminal gang pretending to be a state," Saad said, speaking in Turkey, where he fled in October. "All this talk about applying Shariah and Islamic values is just propaganda, Daesh is about torture and killing," he said, using the Arabic acronym for IS.
. . . .
the group has come to resemble the dictatorial rule of Syrian President Bashar Assad that many Syrians had sought to shed, with a reliance on informers who have silenced a fearful populace. Rather than equality, society has seen the rise of a new elite class — the jihadi fighters — who enjoy special perks and favor in the courts, looking down on "the commoners" and even ignoring the rulings of their own clerics.

Despite the atrocities that made it notorious, the Islamic State group had raised hopes among some fellow Sunnis when it overran their territories across parts of Syria and Iraq and declared a "caliphate" in the summer of 2014. It presented itself as a contrast to Assad's rule, bringing justice through its extreme interpretation of Shariah and providing services to residents, including loans to farmers, water and electricity, and alms to the poor. Its propaganda machine promoting the dream of an Islamic caliphate helped attract jihadis from around the world.
Daesh is brutalizing the public.

Escaping from Daesh
http://www.pbs.org/video/2365527957/ (nasty stuff)
 
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  • #943
Former Dutch soldier may face charges for killing IS jihadis:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/01/83438-2/

Quote from the article:

‘Dutch law does not allow citizens to use violence – apart from in extreme circumstances – and certainly not to use deadly force. Killing IS fighters can, therefore, result in a criminal prosecution for murder,’ the prosecution department statement said.

I sleep a lot better knowing that the Dutch authorities are watching over IS fighters' precious lives.
 
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  • #944
The cancer that is Daesh has spread it's poison to Afghanistan. As bad as the Taliban were, Daesh is worse.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/isis-in-afghanistan/

Daesh members are taking over schools and teaching the children to wage war against those outside of Daesh. Ordinary Afghans are at risk.

ISIS is in Afghanistan, But Who Are They Really?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/isis-is-in-afghanistan-but-who-are-they-really/
experts say that the entities that now call themselves ISIS in Afghanistan are not fighters from Iraq or Syria. Rather, they’re primarily disaffected Taliban members and insurgents from other groups who seized an opportunity to “rebrand” themselves as ISIS.
 
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  • #945
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/w...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
The White House has embraced the covert financing from Saudi Arabia — and from Qatar, Jordan and Turkey — at a time when Mr. Obama has pushed gulf nations to take a greater security role in the region.

Spokesmen for both the C.I.A. and the Saudi Embassy in Washington declined to comment.

When Mr. Obama signed off on arming the rebels in the spring of 2013, it was partly to try to gain control of the apparent free-for-all in the region. The Qataris and the Saudis had been funneling weapons into Syria for more than a year. The Qataris had even smuggled in shipments of Chinese-made FN-6 shoulder-fired missiles over the border from Turkey.

The Saudi efforts were led by the flamboyant Prince Bandar bin Sultan, at the time the intelligence chief, who directed Saudi spies to buy thousands of AK-47s and millions of rounds of ammunition in Eastern Europe for the Syrian rebels. The C.I.A. helped arrange some of the arms purchases for the Saudis, including a large deal in Croatia in 2012.
...
The C.I.A. training program is separate from another program to arm Syrian rebels, one the Pentagon ran that has since ended. That program was designed to train rebels to combat Islamic State fighters in Syria, unlike the C.I.A.’s program, which focuses on rebel groups fighting the Syrian military.
 
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  • #947
How Costly It Can Be For Muslims To Speak Out Against Daesh or al-Qaeda
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2016/02/03/3745720/syria-iraq-yemen-isis-kills-muslim/
“The Islamic State has executed Sunni clerics in Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Yemen, as part of an effort to kill any religious figures who pose a threat to the group’s narrative or ideological control,” noted an intel brief from the Soufan Group, . . .
Meanwhile - Fallujah is surrounded by Iraqi forces while Daesh members run wild in the city
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...65e568-c3a0-11e5-b933-31c93021392a_story.htmlAnd what the Syrian civil war has done to Homs
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dramatic-drone-footage-shows-devastation-of-homs-syria/
Homs is 'bombed out' like many European cities were in World War II.
 
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  • #948
Krylov said:
Former Dutch soldier may face charges for killing IS jihadis:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/01/83438-2/

Quote from the article:

‘Dutch law does not allow citizens to use violence – apart from in extreme circumstances – and certainly not to use deadly force. Killing IS fighters can, therefore, result in a criminal prosecution for murder,’ the prosecution department statement said.

I sleep a lot better knowing that the Dutch authorities are watching over IS fighters' precious lives.

Well...yeah, that's a war crime. If you're not an active-duty soldier you're not allowed to just appoint yourself as one and go out and kill. YPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Protection_Units) is not a formal part of the Dutch military.

More to the point though, he's also being investigated for acts of brutality against civilians:
‘According to Amnesty International, the YPG may have been involved in driving civilians from their homes in the north of Syria last year and then destroying them,’ the statement said.
 
  • #949
jack476 said:
Well...yeah, that's a war crime. If you're not an active-duty soldier you're not allowed to just appoint yourself as one and go out and kill. YPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Protection_Units) is not a formal part of the Dutch military.
Of course. As I wrote, I'm delighted the Dutch justice authorities have their priorities set straight.
jack476 said:
More to the point though, he's also being investigated for acts of brutality against civilians:
I didn't read anywhere that he is personally under investigation for, what seem to me from your Amnesty quote, still rather tentative accusations.
 
  • #950
Krylov said:
Of course. As I wrote, I'm delighted the Dutch justice authorities have their priorities set straight.

So what you're saying is, anyone can just go pick up a gun, fly themselves to Syria, and decide that they don't need to obey any sort of chain of command or due process at all?

That mentality is not how you fight terrorists, that's how people become terrorists. It doesn't matter if the vigilantes are right, if everyone decided to take things into their own hands society wouldn't be able to function.

I didn't read anywhere that he is personally under investigation for, what seem to me from your Amnesty quote, still rather tentative accusations.

The Amnesty quote is actually from your article. The group itself is being investigated for killing civilians in Syria. He was a member of the group, in Syria, when that happened. Ergo it's not unreasonable to wonder if he may have been involved or, if not, whether he knows anything about the people involved.
 
  • #951
jack476 said:
So what you're saying is, anyone can just go pick up a gun, fly themselves to Syria, and decide that they don't need to obey any sort of chain of command or due process at all?

That mentality is not how you fight terrorists, that's how people become terrorists. It doesn't matter if the vigilantes are right, if everyone decided to take things into their own hands society wouldn't be able to function.

There is no society in IS country. There is just death, destruction and misery.

The West is relying on groups like YPG (and their chain of command!) to do the dirty work on the ground for them. If they are so concerned about these groups' supposed lack of ethics, why don't they send their own terrestrial forces?
jack476 said:
The Amnesty quote is actually from your article.
Yes, it is. I did not suggest that it was not.
jack476 said:
The group itself is being investigated for killing civilians in Syria. He was a member of the group, in Syria, when that happened. Ergo it's not unreasonable to wonder if he may have been involved or, if not, whether he knows anything about the people involved.
I don't think that is what the Dutch justice department is primarily after. In any case, at least part of the investigation is based on the suspicion that Jitse killed IS fighters, see the quote from the article that I gave in post #943
Krylov said:
'Dutch law does not allow citizens to use violence – apart from in extreme circumstances – and certainly not to use deadly force. Killing IS fighters can, therefore, result in a criminal prosecution for murder,’ the prosecution department statement said.
as well as

'Jitse A was picked up in Arnhem and is being investigated for his role in killing Islamic State jihadis while fighting with YPG forces', the public prosecution department said in a statement.
 
  • #952
Syrians mass on Turkish border as regime advances
http://news.yahoo.com/syria-regime-forces-fresh-gains-south-monitor-103050248.html
Up to 20,000 stranded at Syria border with Turkey: UN
http://news.yahoo.com/20-000-stranded-syria-border-turkey-un-160906682.html

Tens of thousands of civilians have joined an exodus to escape fierce fighting involving government forces who severed the rebels' main supply route into Syria's second city.
Civilians are caught between homicidal Daesh and apparently equally homicidal Syrian government, which has support from Russia.
 
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  • #953
Krylov said:
There is no society in IS country. There is just death, destruction and misery.

Right, and that's exactly the problem. If we stoop to their level and decide that vigilante justice and moral outrage trump due process of the law, then that's where our society is also headed.

It doesn't matter that IS are overwhelmingly in the wrong. If we start to do things their way, then we're going to end up like them.

It's also extremely unethical to be sending civilians who may not have any formal military training and whose preparation no one can be certain of into combat. That could interfere with actual military interventions, or we could just be sending well-meaning civilians to their deaths.

The West is relying on groups like YPG (and their chain of command!) to do the dirty work on the ground for them.

I don't know that throwing more insurgents into the mix is going to be especially helpful. And given that there has been very little attention to groups like YPG recently, I doubt that they're actually doing a whole lot.

If they are so concerned about these groups' supposed lack of ethics, why don't they send their own terrestrial forces?

Are we not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_Syria
 
  • #954
jack476 said:
Right, and that's exactly the problem. If we stoop to their level and decide that vigilante justice and moral outrage trump due process of the law, then that's where our society is also headed.
There is no law in IS territory, except for the sharia.
jack476 said:
It doesn't matter that IS are overwhelmingly in the wrong. If we start to do things their way, then we're going to end up like them.
I believe there is a big and very essential difference between contributing to halting IS and starting to do things their way.
jack476 said:
It's also extremely unethical to be sending civilians who may not have any formal military training and whose preparation no one can be certain of into combat. That could interfere with actual military interventions, or we could just be sending well-meaning civilians to their deaths.
Jitse Akse is a former Dutch commando, well-trained and with experience that goes back to the Yugoslavian civil war. This is also written in the source article.
jack476 said:
Are we not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_Syria
As far as I understand, the presence of Western forces is restricted to the airspace, with only a limited number of special forces, "advisors" and intelligence officers on the ground. Most of the actual combat on the ground against IS is done by groups like YPG, among others, often in cooperation with the West.
 
  • #955
Krylov said:
There is no law in IS territory, except for the sharia.

And that's the kind of society you end up with when people start to decide to take the jobs of law enforcement and national security into their own hands.

I believe there is a big and very essential difference between contributing to halting IS and starting to do things their way.

As it stands, what this group has been accused of involvement in is not the sort of thing I would call "contributing". The purpose of this investigation is to clarify whether or not civilians have the right to volunteer to fight for non-government military groups. If they rule in his favor and authorize civilians to join YPG to volunteer to help stabilize Syria (and I'm not necessarily saying that they shouldn't) then no harm done, because that way it's all above-board.

The accusation of involvement with violence against civilians also really should be investigated. Would you prefer that it just go ignored?

Jitse Akse is a former Dutch commando, well-trained and with experience that goes back to the Yugoslavian civil war. This is also written in the source article.

And do you think that's true of the average self-appointed militia fighter? YPG has also been known to recruit children. There's no oversight of their training practices, so we can't know for sure that it's a good idea to be letting them send civilians into combat.

As far as I understand, the presence of Western forces is restricted to the airspace, with only a limited number of special forces, "advisors" and intelligence officers on the ground. Most of the actual combat on the ground against IS is done by groups like YPG, among others, often in cooperation with the West.

In cooperation with, and with the authorization of, those countries.
 
  • #956
Hard to believe no one posted about the "cease fire" "cessation of hostilities":
World powers have agreed to seek a nationwide "cessation of hostilities" in Syria to begin in a week's time, after talks in Munich, Germany.

The halt will not apply to the battle against jihadist groups Islamic State (IS) and al-Nusra Front.

The 17-member International Syria Support Group (ISSG) also agreed to accelerate and expand aid deliveries.

The announcement comes as the Syrian army, backed by Russian air strikes, advances in Aleppo province.

The move threatens to encircle tens of thousands of civilians in rebel-held parts of the major city of Aleppo.

The Syrian government has not yet responded, though a key rebel coalition welcomed the announcement.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35556783
So...near as I can tell, it doesn't involve any of the primary combatants and Russia is accelerating airstrikes since. So.. is this just a deal where everyone agrees to get out of Russia's way while Putin helps Assad defeat the rebels but everyone pretends it is a mutual "cease-fire" so they can quit the fight and save face instead of looking like they are just quitting?

If we never intended to do more than put in a token effort to fight, regardless of if it actually helped or not, just to make it look like we were trying, does it still count as a loss?
 
  • #958
Syrian government and "main opposition" agree to the terms of the cessation of hostilities.

ISIS, Al Nusra, and basically any Islamist group who's too close to Al Nusra are not included.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35639970

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35643151

The Syrian government and the main opposition umbrella group say they accept the terms of a deal to cease hostilities from Saturday.

The government said it would halt "combat operations" in line with the plan announced by the US and Russia.

But the opposition said its acceptance depended on government forces ending sieges and air strikes of civilians.

The deal will not apply to the two main jihadist groups in Syria, Islamic State (IS) and the rival al-Nusra Front.

Do all parties agree with the exclusion list?

No. Russia, Iran and the Syrian government regard Ahrar al-Sham and Jaish al-Islam as terrorist groups.

Ahrar al-Sham is likely to be excluded from the ceasefire, given its alliance with al-Nusra in Aleppo and Idlib.

But Jaish al-Islam, which controls large areas of the Damascus countryside, has closer ties to the broader Syrian opposition, and any attack on its positions might therefore endanger the ceasefire.
Things seem too fragile for anyone to be optimistic.
 
  • #959
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  • #960

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