Irreversible Process to Move Gas from State 1 to State 2

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of transitioning an ideal gas from an initial state (state 1) to a final state (state 2) through an irreversible process. Participants explore whether a one-step process can achieve this transition, which involves higher temperature, pressure, and volume compared to the initial state. The conversation touches on concepts such as isentropic compression, isothermal expansion, and polytropic processes, while considering the implications of the ideal gas law (IGL).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a one-step process could theoretically move a gas from state 1 to state 2, but they express uncertainty about what such a process would entail.
  • Others discuss the necessity of defining the state using two of the three variables (pressure, volume, temperature) and suggest that heat transfer could be involved in achieving the final state.
  • There is mention of polytropic processes, with participants questioning how these theoretical models could be applied practically to achieve the desired state change.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the feasibility of a spontaneous process that would result in the desired increase in pressure, temperature, and volume simultaneously.
  • A later reply introduces a hypothetical scenario involving a well-insulated cylinder and a hot liquid to explore conditions under which the final volume of the gas could exceed the initial volume.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether a one-step process is possible. Multiple competing views remain regarding the application of theoretical models like polytropic processes and the practical implications of the ideal gas law.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their discussions, including the speculative nature of the problem and the challenges in visualizing practical applications of theoretical concepts. There is also a recognition that the discussion may involve breaking down purported one-step processes into multiple steps.

  • #31
Here is my entropy change analysis for the irreversible path suggested by @mfig. If we apply the first law of thermodynamics to his path, we obtain $$mC_v(T_2-T_1)=Q-P_2(V_2-V_1)$$where ##P_2=(M_P+M_L)g/A## is the final pressure. Applying the ideal gas law to the work term in the above equation then gives: $$mC_v(T_2-T_1)=Q-mRT_2(1-\frac{V_1}{V_2})\tag{1}$$
Even though the present irreversible path bears little resemblance to the reversible polytropic path analyzed previously, as pointed out in post #29, we can still use the polytropic parameterization in terms of the polytropic parameter n to establish the final state of the gas, such that the range of values for the single parameter n from 0 to ##-\infty## span all possible final states of the gas for which the final pressure and final volume are greater than their values in the initial state. With this in mind, combining Eqn. 2 of post #29 with Eqn. 1 of the present develop gives:$$mC_v(T_2-T_1)=Q-mRT_2\left[1-\left(\frac{T_1}{T_2}\right)^{\frac{1}{1-n}}\right]\tag{2}$$From this, it follows that the total heat flow over the irreversible path is given by:$$Q=mC_v(T_2-T_1)+mRT_2\left[1-\left(\frac{T_1}{T_2}\right)^{\frac{1}{1-n}}\right]\tag{3}$$Since, for this irreversible path, all the heat transfer at the boundary takes place at the final temperature ##T_2##, the integral of dQ divided by the boundary temperature (i.e., the boundary where the heat flow occurs) is just equal to ##Q/T_2##: $$\int{\frac{dQ}{T_{boundary}}}=\frac{Q}{T_2}$$$$=mC_v\left(1-\frac{T_1}{T_2}\right)+mR\left[1-\left(\frac{T_1}{T_2}\right)^{\frac{1}{1-n}}\right]\tag{4}$$Calculations show that, for all values of (1) the "final state parameter" n in the range 0 to ##-\infty##, (2) the heat capacity ratio parameter ##1<\gamma<1.67##, and (3) the overall temperature ratio ##\frac{T_2}{T_1}>1## the integral of ##dQ/T_{boundary}## calculated from Eqn. 4 for this irreversible process path is less than the entropy change between the initial and final states calculated from Eqn. 3 of post #29 for the 2-step reversible path (or the reversible polytropic path). For example, for n = -1, ##\gamma=1.4##, and ##\frac{T_2}{T_1}=2##, we find that ##dQ/T_{boundary}=0.617mC_v## while ##\Delta S =0.832mC_v##. This is consistent with the Clausius inequality, which represents a mathematical statement of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
 
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