Is a Closed, Adiabatic Device Feasible For Work With Steam?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of a closed, adiabatic device that claims to generate useful work by expanding steam from high temperature and pressure to lower temperature and pressure. The focus includes theoretical implications of adiabatic processes and the behavior of steam as a real fluid according to steam tables.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the claim that a closed, adiabatic device can derive useful work from steam expansion under specified conditions.
  • Another participant raises a question about the implications of the term "adiabatic" on entropy change.
  • It is suggested that "adiabatic" implies no change in entropy due to heat transfer, leading to a consideration of entropy generation in the process.
  • A repeated assertion emphasizes the need to consult steam tables to determine if entropy has changed between the two specified states of steam.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion does not reach a consensus on the feasibility of the device. Multiple viewpoints are presented regarding the implications of adiabatic processes and entropy changes.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference steam tables and the concept of entropy without resolving the implications of these references on the feasibility of the device. There are assumptions about the behavior of steam as a real fluid that are not explicitly stated.

Nah346
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
2. A closed, adiabatic device claims to derive useful work by expanding 1 kg of steam from 500 C and 20 bar to 100 C and 1 bar. Do you believe this claim? Assume steam is a real fluid following the steam tables in Appendix A.III.
 
Physics news on Phys.org


"Adiabatic"; what does that tell you about entropy change?
 


"Adiabatic" indicates that there is No change in entropy due to heat transfer. Therefore that would eliminate the (SQ/T) and leave us with (S2-S2 = Sgen)
 
Last edited:


Nah346 said:
"Adiabatic" indicates that there is No change in entropy due to heat transfer. Therefore that would eliminate the (SQ/T) and leave us with (S2-S2 = Sgen)

Yes, so go to your tables and find out if s has or has not changed between your two given states.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
5K