Is Chi an Actual Force in Our Bodies and Surroundings?

[Mallignamius]

I believe most of this is nonsense. But about the bell this "master" seems to ring at the end of the clip, could that be more the result of his foot stomping the floor?

 

[Seanysuds]

It might help if you could better describe one of these instances.

ok a few discriptions would be a shot to my lower back and there be a shooting pain through my chest till he "re directs" my chi by hitting my upper back. getting hit in my left arm then tapped in the neck and my legs go weak and i mean taps not any force at all basicly i know these are pressure points for the most part but still that pain wasnt in my mind it was there i wasnt told where i would hurt just that i would and believe me it didnt feel so nice. by the way i am not a believer in chi atm but i think there is something there... not magic or "energy" i think its more mind over matter and well i guess i can't explain it

 

[jostpuur]

Here is the demonstration of a so called Kiai master 'Yanagiryuken'



In the video he takes to the ground tens of is students without even touching them!

He trust his powers so much that he offered U$S 10.000 to anyone who could defeat him in a fight.

A mma fighter (UFC style) accepted the challenge...

Here is the video of the fight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMgVmFzBrus&NR=1

LOL. after seeing this video all i can think is, he really believed he has the powers! You can't be so stupid to know you are lying and challenge a real fighter!
What amaze me are his students! Is auto-suggestion the real force behind the Chi?
I think the relationships Student Teachers it's like the emperor clothes...

I though that usually these masters are the ones that cheat their students, who are paying for usually quite expensive courses where they are supposed to learn this "energy stuff". But now this looks like, that they were the students who cheated their master to believe in his own abilities!

 

[Seanysuds]

I though that usually these masters are the ones that cheat their students, who are paying for usually quite expensive courses where they are supposed to learn this "energy stuff". But now this looks like, that they were the students who cheated their master to believe in his own abilities!

lol here is something for all u guys i really think its just a big well worked on fake but check it out urself i still think its cool either way and if its real its cool as hell lol

 

[rcgldr]

Well after all this discussion, I'd still like to see a match between Chuck Lidell or any current top 10 UFC fighter and any "Chi Master", heck I'd might be willing to pay to see it.

Ok so the MMA fighter it wasn't in the class of a Chuck Lidell or a Randy Couture, but apparently it wasn't necessary, point proven, and I didn't have to pay to see it.

Chi Master gets banged up and loses fight on youtube

 

[FredGarvin]

I though that usually these masters are the ones that cheat their students, who are paying for usually quite expensive courses where they are supposed to learn this "energy stuff". But now this looks like, that they were the students who cheated their master to believe in his own abilities!

A perfect example of local, mass hypnotism. Sheep. Every last one of them.

Someone please come on here and post a video link to Dillman. He's my favorite (allthough I have never heard of him doing chi balls).

 

[Doc Al]

Dillman's a riot. Here's a video of him "explaining" why his top student's no-touch knockout didn't work on a skeptic. Hilarious. Dillman explains chi KO nullification

 

[FredGarvin]

Dillman's a riot. Here's a video of him "explaining" why his top student's no-touch knockout didn't work on a skeptic. Hilarious. Dillman explains chi KO nullification

I can't see the link right now, but is that the one where he mentions his tongue on the was on the wrong side of his mouth?

 

[Doc Al]

Yep. Probably the same one you're thinking of.

 

[47MartialMan]

Hello everyone.

I had belonged to a local Amateur Magicians Guilde

I have been a martial artist for 40+ years.

I have seen many demos, performed many demos, and staged-propped-many demos. (Chi is bunked as well as Shaolin Fighting Monks-they don't or never had actually existed)

Any if these demos are not example of chi.

They are examples of disciplined training, acquired skill, and illusion.

Noted Demos;

* Board-Brick Breaking

* Brick Breaking on Body on top Bed of Nails and/or Swords

* Blindfold Melon Slicing on top of Subject

* Dim Mak Bottom Brick

* Spear-to-Throat

* Board Breaking on Apendage's like arms/legs/torso/head.

* Car/Vehicle Roll (rolling on top of Chi Master)

* Snuffing out Lit Candle


These are also associated with India's famous street entertainers:

Snake Charmers

Bed of Nails/Swords

Walking on Glass/Coals



I had actually saw this show when it first aired long before YOUTUBE;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac1HloCpFDk&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUR0FHCGXpc&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjvcP62tzas&mode=related&search=



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzD80tutkHk&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XByJFySCd_s&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGGSU7J5oWE&mode=related&search=



Simple tricks-not really. They take a degree of conditioning, practice, and propper staging/propping.

Simply, one has to remember, if all of this is possible, when we went to these demos, we brought our "Own materials". The demonstrators refused to use ours stating "Ours (theirs) are carefully selected for positive energy."

I guess I can say postive that they certainly carefully select their materials or else they will injur themselves. Which these demos are spoosed to depict that they cannot do-injure themselves.

I have many pics and illustrations on how these are done.

If anyone is interested, perhaps I should post them on another thread?


"Some" interesting links:

http://howthingswork.virginia.edu/journal/Article1.1.pdf

http://community.livejournal.com/_martial_arts/398591.html

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html

http://www.bjreview.com.cn/200422/Forum.htm

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art33520.asp

http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/how-to-bend-an-unbendable-arm/#more-138

http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/how-to-shoot-chi-bolts/#more-85

http://www.sports1234.com/martial-arts/212-martial-arts.html

http://friedpie.blogspot.com/2007/01/mystical-karate-powers.html

http://www.scidev.net/News/index.cfm?fuseaction=readNews&itemid=314&language=1

http://www.geocities.com/anunlikeworld/challenges.html

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/saganbur.htm

http://www.internalkungfu.ca/ironpalm.html

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/stoss01.htm

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13140&highlight=Dim+Mak

http://www.skeptic.com/

http://skepdic.com/placebo.html

http://skepdic.com/pragmatic.html

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&file=viewarticle&id=189

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51388

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51388

 

[rcgldr]

I remember a show where actors and actresses were trained to peform some of the stunts, all went well, except Brooke Shields got a slight cut near her heel while walking through broken glass. Give her credit though, this happened on her second step, and she continued to the end. However, seeing the trickle of blood from her foot took away from some of the mystery.

Another stunt was some trapeze work by David Neson from the Ozzie and Harriet show, but it turns out that since Dave and Ricky were kids, trapeze and tumbling was one of their hobbies.

Another time some martial artist walked on eggs in bare feet. The host of the show tried the same thing, taking off his shoes, but wearing socks, and was able to reproduce the stunt with no training. The sole of the foot flexed enough to distribute the force on the egg shells.

Still it was nice to finally see a video of a "chi master" getting his dues. It's apparent in the video that he wasn't seriously hurt, but not being a real fighter, and being relatively old, he wasn't going to be able to take much punishment. How does that saying go ... everyone has a plan until they get hit.

 

[47MartialMan]

Ive seen many demos "go wrong"

There was a extreme vid show on tv, where two martial artist swere doing a sword demo.

The tactic was one to hold a the sword with a apple and the other would kick it off.

Well- he kicked off something-his big toe!

Being a martial artist, I get so disgusted seeing these.

But woe, martial artists arent the only ones using this ideal of faith...

Faith healers and Evangelists do the same to stimulate, and simulate, spiritual possesion.

 

[47MartialMan]

So how do you explain some things like Aikido, like when the grand master's arms couldn't be bent?

I'm sure he has a good grasp of body mechanics and human nature always tries to romanticise things but sometime even with my most critical switches on, I can't really think of a rational explanation...

http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/how-to-bend-an-unbendable-arm/#more-138

 

[tripson]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

 

[jostpuur]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

I hadn't seen the led light trick before. Has Randi said anything about it? I wonder what those people felt, when they touched him something stroke them. I'm almost thinking that the guy could be generating electricity out of his body somehow...

But on the other hand he was also doing the old air blowing trick that for example James Hydrick did until met Randi.

 

[RVM45]

My first post- a good forum; by the way.

I think y'all got off to a very poor start; and consequently have been floundering ever since.

Is there a such thing as "Chi"?

That is equivalent to asking: "Is there a such thing as 'Vital Energy'?"

What in the hell are we talking about? Until you rigorously define what you're looking for; you can't very well determine its existence; or reality. "Chi" is subject to multiple definitions and interpretations; and many folks who use the term; disagree as to its precise nature; and effects. It may also be; that even the most careful; and restrictive definition of "Chi"; may embrace a phenomena that encompasses more than one casual agent; but again, until you precisely define what you're going to test for; you really don't have much chance of proving; or debunking anything.

...RVM45

 

[47MartialMan]

My first post- a good forum; by the way.

I think y'all got off to a very poor start; and consequently have been floundering ever since.

Is there a such thing as "Chi"?

That is equivalent to asking: "Is there a such thing as 'Vital Energy'?"

What in the hell are we talking about? Until you rigorously define what you're looking for; you can't very well determine its existence; or reality. "Chi" is subject to multiple definitions and interpretations; and many folks who use the term; disagree as to its precise nature; and effects. It may also be; that even the most careful; and restrictive definition of "Chi"; may embrace a phenomena that encompasses more than one casual agent; but again, until you precisely define what you're going to test for; you really don't have much chance of proving; or debunking anything.

...RVM45

Yeah sure...are we talking about physics, semantics, or beliefs?

 

[seycyrus]

In my experience, CHI masters are very hesitant to offer a definition.

This hesitancy seems to stem from the fact that they don't want to crack another CHI master's golden egg and get their own omellete scrambled in return.

Noone wants to create the slightest whisp of a breeze for fear of bringing EVERYONE'S (their own included) house of cards tumbling down.

 

[RVM45]

You have a point there. Beliefs may be true; false; or so poorly defined as to be meaningless. I think you'd have to define it semantically; then determine how you'd translate into Physics terminology. Then again, hypotheticlly Chi might exist; despite the fact that none of its users had a true concept of its actual nature...

I agree with seycyrus.

...RVM45

 

[47MartialMan]

You have a point there. Beliefs may be true; false; or so poorly defined as to be meaningless. I think you'd have to define it semantically; then determine how you'd translate into Physics terminology. Then again, hypotheticlly Chi might exist; despite the fact that none of its users had a true concept of its actual nature...

I agree with seycyrus.

...RVM45

Chi only exists in the mind.....

 

[jcs]

I have heard there are ways to see your chi, ki, aura (whatever the damn thing is called). For instance you lift your hand and view it against a dark back ground like a painted black wall (works best apparently) You look at your hand and you wil see a faint tranlucent barrier around the contours of your hand. I tried it and it works..I can see it , but I think it's a bloody optical illusion...

Ps: Strangely it moves the way your hand does...better get my eyes check and get n lobotomy LOL

 

[jcs]

Ps: Strangely it moves the way your hand does...I need to get my eyes checked LOL

 

[kangaroo303]

Chi, to me, has nothing to do with physics, rather, with psychology. In my experience with martial arts, I believe that Chi is not PHYSICAL energy, just like many of you. But, I have an explanation for what it is. I could just tell you that Chi is a spiritual channeling of energy, but this would be only a partial truth.

The "energy" that you channel, chi, is the feeling of strength, confidence, or, "spirit". Anyone who, for instance, breaks concrete using "chi" could have done the feat without "chi", but not as easily, because their mind would not be prepared for the attempt.

Another good way to describe chi is thus.

-The stomach is the root of the body.
-If the mind is uneasy, if you are nervous, upset, angry, that is the mind, the stomach remains steadfast.
-Chi is the name for the strength that lies in the stomach.
-Using Chi, you can mask, and eliminate all mind delusions, and cover yourself in a blanket of truth, that you CAN conquer whatever you want.
-Chi gives the feeling of solidness, like you are a rock, with no negative emotion.spiritual example: when you have a horrible feeling of dread, the "pit of your stomach" is the last point where it can be felt. This is because no delusional emotion such as greed can dwell in such a powerful place

*bows*

 

[47MartialMan]

Chi, to me, has nothing to do with physics, rather, with psychology. In my experience with martial arts, I believe that Chi is not PHYSICAL energy, just like many of you. But, I have an explanation for what it is. I could just tell you that Chi is a spiritual channeling of energy, but this would be only a partial truth.

The "energy" that you channel, chi, is the feeling of strength, confidence, or, "spirit". Anyone who, for instance, breaks concrete using "chi" could have done the feat without "chi", but not as easily, because their mind would not be prepared for the attempt.

Another good way to describe chi is thus.

-The stomach is the root of the body.
-If the mind is uneasy, if you are nervous, upset, angry, that is the mind, the stomach remains steadfast.
-Chi is the name for the strength that lies in the stomach.
-Using Chi, you can mask, and eliminate all mind delusions, and cover yourself in a blanket of truth, that you CAN conquer whatever you want.
-Chi gives the feeling of solidness, like you are a rock, with no negative emotion.


spiritual example: when you have a horrible feeling of dread, the "pit of your stomach" is the last point where it can be felt. This is because no delusional emotion such as greed can dwell in such a powerful place

*bows*

Chi is mentality...

 

[kangaroo303]

not exactly, Chi is the flow, or way you control that mentality. What I described should explain what it feels like, and where it "comes from" in the body.

Mentality is a loose word, you could have a NEGATIVE mentality, but that would not be Chi. Chi is the balance between proper flow, and a good mentality.

 

[47MartialMan]

not exactly, Chi is the flow, or way you control that mentality. What I described should explain what it feels like, and where it "comes from" in the body.

Mentality is a loose word, you could have a NEGATIVE mentality, but that would not be Chi. Chi is the balance between proper flow, and a good mentality.

Bull crap...It is a mentality. I would think on a physics forum, that such would have to be understood

 

[kangaroo303]

If you understood the meaning of Chi (Chinese for Life Energy) You would see that technically, it shouldn't be on a physics forum at all, but seeing as it is, I was merely entertaining the idea, keep an open mind, I'm not forcing you to agree with me, accept what you know, Not just what I or someone else teaches you, just keep the language down and explain your idea with evidence, not just bland statements please, I am trying to learn too.Mentality, a key word, is always a subject whose root lies in opinion.

 

[47MartialMan]

If you understood the meaning of Chi (Chinese for Life Energy) You would see that technically, it shouldn't be on a physics forum at all, but seeing as it is, I was merely entertaining the idea, keep an open mind, I'm not forcing you to agree with me, accept what you know, Not just what I or someone else teaches you, just keep the language down and explain your idea with evidence, not just bland statements please, I am trying to learn too.


Mentality, a key word, is always a subject whose root lies in opinion.

This is a physics forum. Not a discussion on opinion. We deal with scienific data and facts in physics. Not opinions/belieifs...

 

[kangaroo303]

"Bull crap... Chi is mentality"--Back it up with some evidence?
"We deal with scienific data and facts in physics. Not opinions/belieifs..."---Seems you havn't read previous posts sadly...The world revolves around opinion, ALL of science, even physics, started as theoretical opinions and ideas.

I will not tolerate slander/flaming or hypocrisy, all in your previous posts.

This is an opinion, and is not based on physics, so, argue with me through pm, not on post, when you want to dwell in your hypocrisy, thanks.

The subject of Chi itself is a cultural, religious, and opinionated DISCUSSION, because not much physical data has been found, so opinions, discussions, and physics-less rants are almost expected when talking about Chi (remember, Chi is Chinese for Life Force, spiritual force, not physical)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Alright, let's limit this to a discussion and not a battle of the Chi.

Opinions are fine as long as they are specified to be opinions and not facts. Alleged facts require supporting information and/or evidence.