Schools Is DeVry University Worth It? A Comprehensive Review and Analysis

[Sphereic]

DeVry University??

You see Devry commercials all the time. Give your researched opinion. IS it worth going to, poor, or excellent?

I know they give associates degrees in Business and technology and even bachelors in engineering.

 

[leright]

You see Devry commercials all the time. Give your researched opinion. IS it worth going to, poor, or excellent?

I know they give associates degrees in Business and technology and even bachelors in engineering.

They don't give a bachelors in engineering...they give a bachelors in engineering technology! BIG difference.

 

[Moonbear]

It's a technical school, not a university. You'd probably pay less and get an equivalent or better education at a community college. There are jobs where that sort of training can be useful, and you can learn a skill you might not have been able to learn otherwise, but consider it training more than education. For example, if you want to work as a court stenographer, it's the sort of place you could learn stenography. If you want a job as a bookkeeper in an office (not an accountant, but bookkeeper), you can learn what you need there. You can probably learn enough about computers there to work user support, or enough about electronics to fix vending machines, etc. These are all useful skills for jobs that we need people to do, so it does serve a purpose in providing that sort of training if that's what you want or need. On the other hand, it will not make you competitive for jobs that require a college degree.

I'd strongly suggest comparing the cost of community college tuition with their tuition before making a final decision, unless they offer something your community college doesn't and that you need.

 

[leright]

It's a technical school, not a university. You'd probably pay less and get an equivalent or better education at a community college. There are jobs where that sort of training can be useful, and you can learn a skill you might not have been able to learn otherwise, but consider it training more than education. For example, if you want to work as a court stenographer, it's the sort of place you could learn stenography. If you want a job as a bookkeeper in an office (not an accountant, but bookkeeper), you can learn what you need there. You can probably learn enough about computers there to work user support, or enough about electronics to fix vending machines, etc. These are all useful skills for jobs that we need people to do, so it does serve a purpose in providing that sort of training if that's what you want or need. On the other hand, it will not make you competitive for jobs that require a college degree.

I'd strongly suggest comparing the cost of community college tuition with their tuition before making a final decision, unless they offer something your community college doesn't and that you need.

I think they are accredited as a university. They offer master's degrees too. It is an online program, however.

I would agree that you should check out community colleges and then look into transferring to a more traditional university.

 

[Moonbear]

I think they are accredited as a university. They offer master's degrees too. It is an online program, however.

Really? That must be somewhat recently changed then. They used to be the DeVry "Institute." I still wouldn't give their program any more credibility than a community college. I have known people who got university degrees and took a class or two at DeVry just to supplement their knowledge with some hands-on practical learning. For example, one was studying electrical engineering, and the program at the university was heavily theory based, but she didn't feel she got the practical, hands-on experience she wanted, so she took a couple summer courses on electronics just to see how the theory translated to practice. So, I'm not knocking it, just pointing out that you have to know what it really is and if it's going to be enough to suit your needs.

 

[Sphereic]

Well anyway it's accredited and gives you a bachelros in ELECTRONICS engineering. And yes they do provide masters.

I'm not asking you for advice, I'm asking you cause I've been there. Trust e it was not easy. Akthough I didn't finish I know enough to know it wasn't a community college. It's small and may have the look of a technical school or community college but I'd rank them with a fairly high ranking university.

Debry is not to be confused with ITT or UTI. WHile they do offer associates in technical trade skills most of theirs is bachelors in business and high end technology. I studyed and we had to do digital programming, electrical engineering , and Calculus. Further down the line they study Physics, and more complex electronic systems. If you're thinking of a vending machine no. A Devry graduate may also be on a drawing room making drafts of microchip components or yes DESIGNING a vending machine.

By ALL means it wasn't easy. They also offer degrees in Computer Information systems, Telecommunications and now even game design. I don't know of any community colleges giving degrees in game designing.


And yes when I went they were DeVry Institute. They were highly accredited gave bachelors then. My teachers and all other college graduates said it was a very good school.
Besies even MIT is an Institute.

 

[moose]

From my personal experience, most* graduates from DeVry don't think for themselves. I'm now working for the tech support of an electronics company specializing in lcds and lcd controllers, etc. The stupidest questions which can be answered with either a basic knowledge of electronics or by the manual are usually from someone from DeVry. I'm still in high school and I can answer most of their questions. They show a lack of understanding of fundamental electronics knowledge. They don't understand how anything works.

MAYBE it has gotten better and these are the people who graduated 10 years ago or something. I don't know.

It may be hard, but you can make anything hard.

*By most I don't actually mean above 50% because I really don't have any statistics. heh...EDIT: Degrees in game design? You don't need a degree in game design to design games. It sounds a lot more like a trade school type of deal than a real degree to me.

 

[leright]

Well anyway it's accredited and gives you a bachelros in ELECTRONICS engineering. And yes they do provide masters.

I'm not asking you for advice, I'm asking you cause I've been there. Trust e it was not easy. Akthough I didn't finish I know enough to know it wasn't a community college. It's small and may have the look of a technical school or community college but I'd rank them with a fairly high ranking university.

Debry is not to be confused with ITT or UTI. WHile they do offer associates in technical trade skills most of theirs is bachelors in business and high end technology. I studyed and we had to do digital programming, electrical engineering , and Calculus. Further down the line they study Physics, and more complex electronic systems. If you're thinking of a vending machine no. A Devry graduate may also be on a drawing room making drafts of microchip components or yes DESIGNING a vending machine.

By ALL means it wasn't easy. They also offer degrees in Computer Information systems, Telecommunications and now even game design. I don't know of any community colleges giving degrees in game designing.And yes when I went they were DeVry Institute. They were highly accredited gave bachelors then. My teachers and all other college graduates said it was a very good school.
Besies even MIT is an Institute.

they don't give BS degrees in engineering...they give BS degrees in engineering technology (less theoretical more hand-on)...there's a very big difference between the two. An engineering degree teaches you how to be an engineer whereas an engineering technology degree teaches you how to be a technician. However, the engineering technology degree offered by Devry is probably equilvalent in coursework to an ET program at any other university (most schools with engineering degrees also offer ET Degrees), and is probably fully accredited to provide an ET program...the accreditation for engineering is a lot different. I'm not knocking the ET track...we need skilled technicians that test the systems the engineers design, and the techs often even assist with the designs.

But compare the ET degree curriculum at any university with their engineering degree curriculum. You will see a lot more math, physics, and more theoretical engineering coursework. Pretty much every university offers an ET degree, but nowhere near as many offer "engineering" degrees. Also, check out ITT tech's degree programs...they don't offer engineering degrees.

Also, if you put "BS Electronics Engineering" on your resume then you are lying and that is grounds for termination if someone finds out after you are hired.

EVERY EE course ETs take is different than the EE courses EEs take...there is no overlap. Also, there's a different math sequence, and less math. In engineering classes every theorem is rigorously proved, whereas in the ET classes things are often handwaved or glossed over. I bet ETs get very little exposure to FTs and the more mathematical side of signal analysis, for instance.

I know people that were formerly in EE programs and switched to EET since they weren't good at or didn't care for the math and more abstract topics.

 

[leright]

I just checked their website and all they offer is "engineering technology" degrees. If they ever told you (perhaps your advisor) on paper that you were getting an engineering degree, I would sue them immediately.

 

[mr_coffee]

lol yah getting an "engineering technology" degree isn't what your looking for if you were interested in engineering.

If you would want to do engineering technology I would suggest just going to a technical school. Well I guess DeVry might be considered that as well.

 

[Sphereic]

Well that has a technical degree. It was called an ET for Engineering Technology and was an associates.. Then there was EET or Electronics Engineering Technology and was a bachelors. There was drafting and learning C which I doubt technicians do.

DP they make differently or can Electronics Engineers, and Electronics Engineering Technology graduates make the same?

 

[leright]

Well that has a technical degree. It was called an ET for Engineering Technology and was an associates.. Then there was EET or Electronics Engineering Technology and was a bachelors. There was drafting and learning C which I doubt technicians do.

DP they make differently or can Electronics Engineers, and Electronics Engineering Technology graduates make the same?

Why don't you think technicians learn drafting and C? Those are pretty standard in an ET or EET curriculum. My point is there is a big difference between engineering and engineering tech (whether it's electrical/electronics or mech E or whatever). Look at the curriculum of ET and engineering at a school that offers both. The difference is night and day.

I am pretty sure the starting salary for technologists is a bit lower than that of engineers, but as time goes on the difference probably narrows.

Just out of curiosity...have you ever heard of a Fourier transform? What about transfer functions or the convolution theorem? LTI system theory? s-domain and frequency domain analysis? I am just curious what it is you covered...you may have heard these things before (they were probably mentioned in your courses since they are rather important concepts) but you might not have covered them with a ton of depth.

I am not knocking the technology degree...I don't see it as inferior to the engineering degree...they are just different scopes...one of theoretical and the other is hands-on. Many EE majors never even picked up a soldering iron before and really have a difficult time debugging a circuit...all of the engineer's work is done on a computer and a protoboard.

 

[leright]

Just to give you an idea, here is circuits 1 and 2 for EEs compared to circ 1 and 2 for EETs at my school

EET circuits 1 and 2:

TEE 1023 - Circuits 1
Introduction to electrical and electronic fundamentals. Basic principles involved in DC circuits, study of networks with multiple sources of emf, the application of Thevenins and Nortons theorems, magnetic circuits, capacitance, inductance and transients in DC circuits.

TEE 2013 - Circuits 2
Basic principles involved in AC circuit analysis, phasors, series and parallel circuits, mesh and nodal analysis, network theorems, power, resonance, polyphase systems, and transformer.

EE Circuits 1 and 2

EEE 2114 - Circuits 1
Voltage current, power. Kirchoffs law, Ohms law, resistance independent and dependent sources, operational amplifiers. Formulation and solution of network equations, MathCAD, Spice, linearity and superposition, Thevenins theorems, maximum power transfer. Capacitance, inductance, mutual inductance. Sinusoidal steady state analysis, AC power, three phase systems. Transfer functions, frequency response, Bode diagrams, filters. First order transient responses. Lecture 4 hours.

EEE 3123 - Circuits 2
Ramp, step, and impulse functions. Second order transient responses, differential equations, transfer functions, convolution, impulse response. Laplace transforms, Fourier analysis, two-port networks.


I know those aren't very detailed descriptions and it appears they are similar courses, but I am pretty sure theorems are not rigorously proven in the EET courses, whereas they are rigorously proven in EE courses (from what the technology students tell me).

 

[WolfOfTheSteps]

In engineering classes every theorem is rigorously proved

That's probably just a bit of an exaggeration. In the physics and math departments, maybe. But in the EE department?

 

[Bitter]

I wouldn't say it is an exaggeration. Perhaps not every theorem, but I found that a lot of them were proven rigoriously. Some of our test involved proven certain theorems and then using them in a problem.

 

[Sphereic]

SO a EET with amasters, is he capable of doing an EE's work? There are not so great EEs and good EETs. Is it possible a EET could do an EEs work at a fundamental level. Nothtat it's the doorway to EE but if an EET worked with or around a EE could he watch and pickup knowledge and move up to an EE's position?

You're saying EE is somewhat harder and academic. IS there any chance an EET could do some primary or core Electronics Engineering?You say we don't overlap but I aksed the wuestion a year ago could a Physicist do an engineer's job and you all said certainly yes. Now physicists and engineers study the same topics but Science and Engineering are more than halfway different.

 

[kdinser]

The quick answer is no, strictly from a legal standpoint. An electrical engineering degree is a professional degree that allows the holder to work as a professional engineer.

That being said, a lot of engineering graduates (most?) never get certified as professional engineers. On projects where public safety is an issue, their work would need to be reviewed by a professional engineer who would have to sign off on it, basically putting his reputation on the line.

Most of what I'm learning in my electrical engineering classes is not going to be directly applicable to any job I take after I graduate. No one is going to place a complex 3D circuit schematic in front of me and ask me to tell them the power being dissipated by resistor R79 with nothing more then a calculator, pen and paper. I'm also not going to be doing Fourier transforms by hand or calculating magnetic flux through a cylinder using Gausses law and triple integrals. I don’t expect that I’ll be designing too many full and half wave rectifiers using nothing but a few diodes, a transformer, and some resistors. All of this stuff is done on computers now and you don’t necessarily need to understand the underlying mathematics and physics in order to use the tools, but it doesn’t hurt either.

Basically what I’ve been told by engineering graduates who are working in industry is, completing an engineering degree shows an employer that you have the skills needed to learn how to be a real engineer from other engineers who have more experience. Based on this, I wouldn’t say it’s impossible to eventually be doing an EE’s job with an EET degree, but it would be unlikely. If you’re an engineering tech with several years experience, you’re going to be getting paid more money then a company could hire a recent EE graduate for. Factor in the costs of hiring someone to replace you (remember, you have a lot of skills that the company has become dependant on) and the fact that you could never be certified as a professional engineer and it’s unlikely a company would be willing to make that jump.

As others have said, engineers and engineering techs have very different skill sets, career paths, and career goals, there might be some overlap in industry, but they are still very different.

 

[leright]

That's probably just a bit of an exaggeration. In the physics and math departments, maybe. But in the EE department?

It's not an exaggeration. Perhaps not every theorem, but the majority. This is just the difference between EE and EET.

 

[chroot]

Wow.. there's a lot of posturing and a lot of misinformation being spread in this thread.

Obviously, Sphereic, you only came here to shamelessly promote your school. That's fine, but you need to temper your rhetoric with a little fact. I really don't intend for this to become a DeVry-bashing session, but, well, you did ask for it.

leright is correct that DeVry does not offer real engineering degrees. He's also right that a degree in engineering technology does not qualify you even remotely for the same job as a genuine electrical engineer. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I studyed and we had to do digital programming, electrical engineering , and Calculus. Further down the line they study Physics, and more complex electronic systems. If you're thinking of a vending machine no. A Devry graduate may also be on a drawing room making drafts of microchip components or yes DESIGNING a vending machine.

Get real! Electrical engineers take a minimum of 3-4 physics classes, 4-5 calculus and differential equations classes, 3-4 programming classes, etc. Have you ever actually looked at the curriculum for EE at a major university? You may not realize it, but saying "we studied calculus" just makes your case seem weaker.

I'm a senior staff design engineer for a major integrated circuit manufacturer. Half of our employees hold advanced degrees from universities like Stanford and Cal. I have never met a single DeVry graduate in nearly ten years of experience in my field, and I can virtually promise you no one is going to hire a fresh DeVry grad into design engineering. With ten years of experience in other positions, it might not matter, but you will not initially be able to compete with candidates with bona fide engineering degrees from well-known universities. You can belly-ache all you want, but it's the truth. If you don't like it, go get a bona fide engineering degree from a well-known university. Also -- I just can't help picking on you -- no one uses drafting tables for designing integrated circuits anymore! Welcome to 1970!

Besies even MIT is an Institute.

Silliest quote of the thread. If you're actually trying to compare DeVry to MIT by pointing out they both have the word "Institute" in their names... well, I don't know how to respond with civility.

SO a EET with amasters, is he capable of doing an EE's work?

If two people attain the same master's degree from the same school, they're probably similarly qualified. That said, you'll have a very hard time getting into the same grad school with a DeVry degree.

Nothtat it's the doorway to EE but if an EET worked with or around a EE could he watch and pickup knowledge and move up to an EE's position?

Of course. Experience always trumps education in the end. Unfortunately, an EET degree from DeVry will be a 10-year handicap in pay and responsibility, as compared to your peers who hold EE degrees from well-known universities. That's just the cold, hard, honest truth.

I aksed the wuestion a year ago could a Physicist do an engineer's job and you all said certainly yes.

Well, I guess I didn't respond to that thread, but I'd have to say no -- physicists are not directly qualified to do any kind of engineering. Certainly they could probably pick it up pretty quickly, but they're not immediately qualified.

An electrical engineering degree is a professional degree that allows the holder to work as a professional engineer.

At least in the US, you must take and pass an additional exam to become a licensed professional engineer. Simply holding a bachelor's does not imply any kind of licensing.

- Warren

 

[Manchot]

You may not realize it, but saying "we studied calculus" just makes your case seem weaker.

Heh, that's exactly what I was thinking. The capitalization of "calculus" didn't help either.

 

[mr_coffee]

chroot, nicely said.

pwnt via internets.

I think he is coming to realize with his degree he won't be doing what he once thought he was going to do. Or he found out that EET's get paid very little compared to EE's.

Its like WOW this course work is so easy, I can't believe no one else went to DeVry and now you know.

 

[chroot]

In case anyone felt like this entire conversation is deja vu, they're correct:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=983468

Line was banned previously, and thus this new account has also been banned, as per our guidelines.

- Warren

 

[leright]

Also -- I just can't help picking on you -- no one uses drafting tables for designing integrated circuits anymore! Welcome to 1970!


- Warren

lmao. funniest thing I have heard yet this week.

 

[kdinser]

The quick answer is no, strictly from a legal standpoint. An electrical engineering degree is a professional degree that allows the holder to work as a professional engineer.

Sorry, I should have stated that as;
An electrical engineering degree is a degree that can lead to the title of professional engineer. My bad.

 

[mr_coffee]

So he's an actual advisor from DeVRY trying to get students to go there? Or is he a distraught student?

thats so f'ed up hah makes me like them even less!

 

[chroot]

So he's an actual advisor from DeVRY trying to get students to go there? Or is he a distraught student?

thats so f'ed up hah makes me like them even less!

Based on his posting history, he's a struggling student who's trying to make something of himself. That in itself is admirable, and I wish him the best. I want to make that clear. I'm only enforcing the ban because he created another account and began almost exactly the same discussion all over again, and we have guidelines...

- Warren

 

[Poolman]

I know that this argument seems a bit old, However I can’t help but to throw in my two cents. I went to and graduated from Devry here in Columbus Ohio. I graduated with a BA in Computer engineering Technology (CET) program. This is an engineering degree to the fullest definition. The average starting salary of completing the (CET) program at Devry is 45K a year, is also in sink with comparisons to any BA computer engineering degree program offered at MIT. MIT has an average starting salary for a BA in computer engineering that is equivalent to Devry (45k a year). Devry is a very good school to go to and expensive, cost over 8k per trimester. Devry is not just a tech school, but is a full university. All credits taken at Devry are transferable to other universities unlike schools such as ITT, and should be worth noting. However, Devry use to be just a tech school much like ITT, but that was many years ago.

My point is this, You can get a full blown BA in computer engineering at Devry. I know a few people who have went through Devry who now work for Boeing, NASA, and in other prestigious fields. Thank you for you time.

 

[chroot]

According to salary.com, the average starting salary for computer engineers in the Columbus, OH area is almost $53k. I'd like to see references that state that the average starting salary for MIT CpE grads is only $45k/year, because I frankly don't believe a word of it.

A CET is not the same as a CpE degree, no matter how you'd like to spin it.

DeVry's CET curriculum is listed here:

http://www.devry.edu/cacatalog/index.jsp?catSelection=/cacatalog/xmlnode/cacatalog/cet_program.jsp

I notice a conspicuous absence of any higher math beyond basic calculus. Genuine engineering programs usually involve at least four or five classes beyond calculus. The lack of sophisticated math will handicap your exposure to theory in all later classes.

I also notice a lack of higher programming classes, like operating systems, comparative languages, etc.

Sorry.

- Warren

 

[Poolman]

Well, where to start?… First of all, you must understand that out of all courses offered in the CET program averages to be about 70% math, and that all courses are accelerated; meaning that most mathematic courses are combined with their related and real life computer theory courses along with lab (in most cases). It’s kind of hard to explain, but I will try the best I can. In most other universities, you spend two years taking the basic classes regardless of what you chosen degree is well before choosing your major, Writing, Physiology, History, ect… None that pertain to your chosen field, thus… a waste of time.

When you enroll into a—state recognized—bachelor degree program that is accelerated you must already possesses the required education that can supplement for the two years required. This is usually done at a local collage or high school. I’m not talking about typical high school education, I’m talking about advance Algebra, Calculus, Trig, ect…

If you try to enroll at Devry with a typical high school education, you will not be able to take the CET program along with most of their Bachelor degrees they offer. So, in a sense, the three year program is actually a five year program, four depending how smart you are.

Another thing you seem to fail to understand is that computer engineering related mathematics is totally different the your basic advance math courses offered at your typical collages. Not only do you need to be proficient in basic mathematics, but you need to understand how to apply and plug in different numbering systems such as to each branch of mathematics. Numbering systems such as binary, octal, decimal, hexadecimal. Imagine trying to use the rules of simple addition to a totally different number system! A number system as most know it consists of 10 digits, but try a 16 digit code such as hexadecimal that not only use numbers, but letters as well such as adding 8F + 2A for instance. And that’s just one numbering system using addition for crying out loud. Now imagine trying to plug in a hexadecimal number into something as complicated as advance graphing, or trig? Maybe this is what you were referring to as “comparative languages” in your post.

The solo math courses that they do offer such as Algebra, Calculus, Trig, ect is not math 105 my friend, and those courses are designed around all the different numbering systems, not basic 10 digit code. In nearly each class, you apply math with a vengeance, I crunched numbers hours a day, every single day I went to that school, not just in the solo math courses.

As far as the references you are demanding here, I would suggest that you do your own research giving my time restraints. However, I was on top of those numbers while in school. I was able to find a year 2000 for the average salary for a BA at MIT. Please keep in mind, this is the average starting salary for all courses, not just Computer engineering courses. But the numbers paint a good picture of the realities at hand because the average starting salary for computer engineers has actually went down sinse the year 2000 do to outsourcing from countries such as India. Study it for your self.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2000/salary-0531.html

As far as the name of any Computer engineering course is concerned, I find that Ignorant of you to say the least. The reason I’m saying that is because each and every collage that offers a BA in computer engineering also has a different name for the degree… Pure ignorance on your part.

You may not like it, but I do know what the heck I’m talking about, after all, it’s my chosen field of study at the school your obviously wrong about. Don’t you think I would know? So don’t just sit their and spill your Bull%#$^ redirect on me because it won't work. It’s not like I’m trying to sell you something, or spin something on you. Quite frankly, you can be as ignorant as you want to be, all I was doing was speaking realities

Sorry :)

 

[Poolman]

Almost forgot, Programming is something totally different then computer engineering., is totally different bread. Anyone with a “minimum” computer science related education knows this, like common knowledge. For programming, look at the CIT program.

Sorry :)

 

[Maxwell]

… Pure ignorance on your part.

You may not like it, but I do know what the heck I’m talking about, after all, it’s my chosen field of study at the school your obviously wrong about. Don’t you think I would know? So don’t just sit their and spill your Bull%#$^ redirect on me because it won't work. It’s not like I’m trying to sell you something, or spin something on you. Quite frankly, you can be as ignorant as you want to be, all I was doing was speaking realities

Sorry :)

It's funny, because like 90% of what you have written is completely wrong and irrelevant. If you're going to be wrong, at least be nice about it!

 

[devoured_elysium]

Another thing you seem to fail to understand is that computer engineering related mathematics is totally different the your basic advance math courses offered at your typical collages. Not only do you need to be proficient in basic mathematics, but you need to understand how to apply and plug in different numbering systems such as to each branch of mathematics. Numbering systems such as binary, octal, decimal, hexadecimal. Imagine trying to use the rules of simple addition to a totally different number system! A number system as most know it consists of 10 digits, but try a 16 digit code such as hexadecimal that not only use numbers, but letters as well such as adding 8F + 2A for instance. And that’s just one numbering system using addition for crying out loud. Now imagine trying to plug in a hexadecimal number into something as complicated as advance graphing, or trig? Maybe this is what you were referring to as “comparative languages” in your post.

Are saying that doing maths is harder just because you're using another base system opposed to the decimal? You're making a fool of yourself lol . That's what I've done in my first semester in my Physics Engineering course in Digital Systems, like everyone of us do! lol!

 

[chroot]

Well, Poolman, this is hands-down the funniest post I've read in several months. I applaud you for your entertainment value.

meaning that most mathematic courses are combined with their related and real life computer theory courses along with lab (in most cases).

Okay. In which class do you learn how to solve partial differential equations?

It’s kind of hard to explain, but I will try the best I can. In most other universities, you spend two years taking the basic classes regardless of what you chosen degree is well before choosing your major, Writing, Physiology, History, ect… None that pertain to your chosen field, thus… a waste of time.

Most decent universities can't actually pack a complete undergraduate engineering degree into two years, Most do not require engineering students to take two full years of humanities.

When you enroll into a—state recognized—bachelor degree program that is accelerated you must already possesses the required education that can supplement for the two years required. This is usually done at a local collage or high school. I’m not talking about typical high school education, I’m talking about advance Algebra, Calculus, Trig, ect…

Algebra II, Trig, and Calculus should be standard high-school fare for any student who expects to do well in a technical field. AP Calculus classes are offered in high schools all over the country.

If you try to enroll at Devry with a typical high school education, you will not be able to take the CET program along with most of their Bachelor degrees they offer. So, in a sense, the three year program is actually a five year program, four depending how smart you are.

Let me get this straight... DeVry's three-year program is actually a five-year program, if you include the other two years of classes you were supposed to have taken in high school.

Another thing you seem to fail to understand is that computer engineering related mathematics is totally different the your basic advance math courses offered at your typical collages.

Well, let's see here, kiddo. I hold a bachelor's of computer engineering from Virginia Tech, and am nearly done with a master's of electrical engineering at Stanford. I'm a senior staff integrated circuit design engineer for a billion-dollar company on the NASDAQ-100. And you're going to try to tell me about "engineering-related math?"

Not only do you need to be proficient in basic mathematics, but you need to understand how to apply and plug in different numbering systems such as to each branch of mathematics. Numbering systems such as binary, octal, decimal, hexadecimal.

Arithmetic bases should be taught at the beginning of an introductory computer engineering course. Generally, most classes expect students to completely master arithmetic in a couple of weeks. Representation of signed numbers and floating-point numbers should take another couple of weeks, and that's it.

Imagine trying to use the rules of simple addition to a totally different number system! A number system as most know it consists of 10 digits, but try a 16 digit code such as hexadecimal that not only use numbers, but letters as well such as adding 8F + 2A for instance.

If the hardest problems you've ever faced at DeVry involved adding hexadecimal numbers, you have completely cemented my belief that DeVry is a joke, and should not be respected in any way.

And that’s just one numbering system using addition for crying out loud. Now imagine trying to plug in a hexadecimal number into something as complicated as advance graphing, or trig?

Mathematics is exactly the same no matter what arithmetic base you use. Even arithmetic itself (addition and so on) is performed by hand using the same algorithms. There is absolutely nothing interesting, or difficult, about arithmetic. You don't realize it, but your attempt to impress us has failed miserably. You haven't learned any real math there at all.

It's as if you went to a school to study "rocket science," but all they managed to teach you was which way is up.

Maybe this is what you were referring to as “comparative languages” in your post.

No. Comparative language classes compare the features, syntax, and implementations of various different programming languages. They're usually taken after the student has mastered two or three languages already.

The solo math courses that they do offer such as Algebra, Calculus, Trig, ect is not math 105 my friend, and those courses are designed around all the different numbering systems, not basic 10 digit code. In nearly each class, you apply math with a vengeance, I crunched numbers hours a day, every single day I went to that school, not just in the solo math courses.

Wow, what a pathetic excuse for an education! Rather than actually learning any real math, all you did was algebra with numbers in different bases?

Do you know how to use linear algebra to solve simultaneous equations? Do you know what a linear transformation is, and what the terms 'kernel' and 'image' mean? Do you know how to perform differentiation under the integral sign to compute difficult integrals? Do you know how to get a Taylor expansion of a expression? Do you know to solve elementary ordinary differential equations by separation? Do you know what a 'generalized coordinate' is? Do you know how to find the Fourier transform of a discrete sequence? Do you know how to determine whether or not a linear system is stable? Do you know how to use the KVL and KCL to solve passive circuits? Do you know what the virtual short and virtual open principles are for op-amps? Do you know how to build a 2-to-1 multiplexer out of AND gates? Do you know how to write a priority encoder in Verilog? Do you know how to write an I2C slave in microcontroller firmware? Do you know how to write a keyboard ISR for the PC platform? Do you know what the model-view-controller pattern is? Do you know how to write a binary search? Do you know how to balance a red-black tree? Do you know which sort is best when your data set is nearly sorted already? Do you know which list data structures allow constant-time insertion?

These are all things I expect anyone who claims to have an education in computer engineering to know.

Please keep in mind, this is the average starting salary for all courses, not just Computer engineering courses.

Translation: The link you gave doesn't support your claim, it supports mine. Congratulations.

As far as the name of any Computer engineering course is concerned, I find that Ignorant of you to say the least. The reason I’m saying that is because each and every collage that offers a BA in computer engineering also has a different name for the degree… Pure ignorance on your part.

1) Learn how to spell college, for God's sake.
2) Computer engineering is a BS degree.

You may not like it, but I do know what the heck I’m talking about, after all, it’s my chosen field of study at the school your obviously wrong about. Don’t you think I would know? So don’t just sit their and spill your Bull%#$^ redirect on me because it won't work.

Of course it'll work. I know a hell of a lot more about this field than you do.

It’s not like I’m trying to sell you something, or spin something on you. Quite frankly, you can be as ignorant as you want to be, all I was doing was speaking realities

Of course you're trying to spin this. You're trying to convince me that DeVry is a good school because they made you do a lot of hexadecimal arithmetic. That happens to be completely laughable. Good show.

- Warren

 

[FrogPad]

The solo math courses that they do offer such as Algebra, Calculus, Trig, ect is not math 105 my friend, and those courses are designed around all the different numbering systems, not basic 10 digit code. In nearly each class, you apply math with a vengeance, I crunched numbers hours a day, every single day I went to that school, not just in the solo math courses.

Here are a few examples of non-"math 105" required classes for EE majors:

1: Vector analysis, Fourier analysis, and partial differential equations (laplace, heat, wave).

2: Set Theory, Experiments, and Probability, Discrete Random variables, Continuous Random variables, Pairs of Random Variables, Random Vectors, Sum of Random variables, Sample Mean and Parameter Estimation, Hypothesis Testing, Introduction to stochastic processes.



Saying that Devry is harder because you did number crunching for hours on end doesn't mean much. When you are saying it is harder, you must be comparing it to something. So what are you comparing it to?

 

[Poolman]

My goodness, I don’t think I have ever been bashed like this on a forum before. I would love to have a comeback with all of you, I just can’t keep up. I respond to one thing, and by the time I post it, I have 3 more replies. So… I’ll sum it up like this.

I was surfing the net and seen this post and had to stick up for this guy. All of you were running circles around him and you were dead wrong about your argument, pure ignorance on your part plane and simple. I can’t even believe what I’m reading here. The real argument, and the real question is, “Is the CET program at Devry offer a real Computer Engineering BA?” And the answer is yes.

Like it or not, those are the facts.

Sorry! I'm right and unbelievably your all wrong :)

 

[ranger]

I'm not sure of any school in the US that offers a BA in comEng. Personally, I'm going for a bachelors of engineering in the same major. And to some extent I feel insulted that you can call yourself an engineer with a Devry degree. I say this becuase you're not qualified to do most of the designs that we can do. Its a damn rough road to get that engineering degree. And for you to call yourself an engineer and compare yourself to others who had to go through hell to get that degree; its just damn insulting and wrong. Were you able to answer any of the questions chroot asked?

This thread is like those other threads from high school students who claim to be interested in string theory and quantum mechanics...they haven't the slightest clue.

Some responses in this thread were harsh, but I hope you understand why it was so.

 

[cristo]

Sorry! I'm right and unbelievably your all wrong :)

Well, I mean, you could just take the "I'm right and you're wrong" stance, or you could try and answer some of the points that have been put to you. As an outsider who knows nothing about engineering, your argument is incredibly unsubstantial.

 

[daveb]

Do you know how to linear algebra to solve simultaneous equations? Do you know what a linear transformation is, and what the terms 'kernel' and 'image' mean? Do you know how to perform differentiation under the integral sign to compute difficult integrals? Do you know how to get a Taylor expansion of a expression? Do you know to solve elementary ordinary differential equations by separation? Do you know what a 'generalized coordinate' is? Do you know how to find the Fourier transform of a discrete sequence? Do you know how to determine whether or not a linear system is stable?

yup!

Do you know how to use the KVL and KCL to solve passive circuits? Do you know what the virtual short and virtual open principles are for op-amps? Do you know how to build a 2-to-1 multiplexer out of AND gates? Do you know how to write a priority encoder in Verilog? Do you know how to write an I2C slave in microcontroller firmware? Do you know how to write a keyboard ISR for the PC platform? Do you know what the model-view-controller pattern is? Do you know how to write a binary search? Do you know how to balance a red-black tree? Do you know which sort is best when your data set is nearly sorted already? Do you know which list data structures allow constant-time insertion?

Nope!Oh well, I guess that's why I'm not a computer engineer.

 

[NeoDevin]

I suppose it might help to compare the calculus requirements...

The only Calculus requirement for the DeVry CET program is
(As per the DeVry website)

MATH-216- Applied Calculus I
This course covers calculus skills needed to solve engineering technology problems. Topics include functions and limits, methods of differentiation, and integration and related applications. Calculus methods are applied to algebraic, logarithmic and trigonometric functions, emphasizing problem-solving rather than proof of theorems. Computer software is used throughout the course.

At the university which I am currently attending (University of Alberta), these are the required calculus courses for the Computer Engineering degree.

MATH 100 Calculus I
Review of numbers, inequalities, functions, analytic geometry; limits, continuity; derivatives and applications, Taylor polynomials; log, exp, and inverse trig functions. Integration, fundamental theorem of calculus substitution, trapezoidal and Simpson's rules.

MATH 101 Calculus II
Area between curves, techniques of integration. Applications of integration to planar areas and lengths, volumes and masses. First order ordinary differential equations: separable, linear, direction fields, Euler's method, applications. Infinite series, power series, Taylor expansions with remainder terms. Polar coordinates. Rectangular, spherical and cylindrical coordinates in 3-dimensional space. Parametric curves in the plane and space: graphing, arc length, curvature; normal binormal, tangent plane in 3-dimensional space. Volumes and surface areas of rotation.

MATH 201 Differential Equations
First-order equations; second-order linear equations: reduction of order, variation of parameters; Laplace transform; linear systems; power series; solution by series; separation of variables for PDEs

MATH 209 Calculus III
Partial differentiation, derivatives of integrals. Multiple integration using rectangular, cylindrical, and spherical coordinates. Vector Field Theory.

So you're trying to tell us that those four courses are contained in the single course at DeVry?

 

[Ronnin]

When exactly did a certification or a BA become equal to any kind of BS degree? I'm still confused, how can this be so

 

[WolfOfTheSteps]

You know, I always gave Devry and such schools the benefit of the doubt. But after reading Poolman's post, I'm 100% convinced they are far less rigorous than I ever imagined. I honestly felt embarrassed while reading Poolman's defense.

Poolman, I'm sorry, but you would be shocked if you sat in on some EE or CE classes at a reputable university. (you might actually want to do this... find out if you can sit in on an upperclassmen CE class at a local university and see how well you can follow along) I'm an EE, not a CE, but I took an intro to CE course, and Chroot is correct, we were expected to learn the arithmetic in other bases within a week. It's child's play. (in fact, arithmetic in other bases can just as easily be taught to children as arithmetic in base 10!)

Of course, just because you're at Devry doesn't mean you can't be successful, but you just have to accept reality and work with it the best you can.

 

[JasonRox]

You know, I always gave Devry and such schools the benefit of the doubt. But after reading Poolman's post, I'm 100% convinced they are far less rigorous than I ever imagined. I honestly felt embarrassed while reading Poolman's defense.

Poolman, I'm sorry, but you would be shocked if you sat in on some EE or CE classes at a reputable university. (you might actually want to do this... find out if you can sit in on an upperclassmen CE class at a local university and see how well you can follow along) I'm an EE, not a CE, but I took an intro to CE course, and Chroot is correct, we were expected to learn the arithmetic in other bases within a week. It's child's play. (in fact, arithmetic in other bases can just as easily be taught to children as arithmetic in base 10!)

Of course, just because you're at Devry doesn't mean you can't be successful, but you just have to accept reality and work with it the best you can.

My ex-gf went to a reputable engineering school and I attended some of her classes and even saw how hard she was working. It's definitely tough stuff. I go to a regular provincial/state university and I noticed a difference from my school to the reputable. I'm in mathematics too. It's not that mathematics isn't hard or anything, it's just that in Engineering they throw so much **** at you. If I noticed a difference between a state university to a more reputable state university, I couldn't imagine the difference between Devry and a reputable school. Also, I went to a community college and noticed the big difference between that and university. If Devry is lower than a community college, that is just mind bogglingly low.

 

[las3rjock]

I was able to find a year 2000 for the average salary for a BA at MIT.

That's quite impressive, considering that MIT does not confer Bachelor of Arts degrees. Even History majors at MIT receive a Bachelor of Science degree.

 

[Poolman]

I suppose it might help to compare the calculus requirements...

The only Calculus requirement for the DeVry CET program is

ATH-216- Applied Calculus I
This course covers calculus skills needed to solve engineering technology problems. Topics include functions and limits, methods of differentiation, and integration and related applications. Calculus methods are applied to algebraic, logarithmic and trigonometric functions, emphasizing problem-solving rather than proof of theorems. Computer software is used throughout the course.
(As per the DeVry website)



At the university which I am currently attending (University of Alberta), these are the required calculus courses for the Computer Engineering degree.


Quote:
MATH 100 Calculus I
Review of numbers, inequalities, functions, analytic geometry; limits, continuity; derivatives and applications, Taylor polynomials; log, exp, and inverse trig functions. Integration, fundamental theorem of calculus substitution, trapezoidal and Simpson's rules.

MATH 101 Calculus II
Area between curves, techniques of integration. Applications of integration to planar areas and lengths, volumes and masses. First order ordinary differential equations: separable, linear, direction fields, Euler's method, applications. Infinite series, power series, Taylor expansions with remainder terms. Polar coordinates. Rectangular, spherical and cylindrical coordinates in 3-dimensional space. Parametric curves in the plane and space: graphing, arc length, curvature; normal binormal, tangent plane in 3-dimensional space. Volumes and surface areas of rotation.

MATH 201 Differential Equations
First-order equations; second-order linear equations: reduction of order, variation of parameters; Laplace transform; linear systems; power series; solution by series; separation of variables for PDEs

MATH 209 Calculus III
Partial differentiation, derivatives of integrals. Multiple integration using rectangular, cylindrical, and spherical coordinates. Vector Field Theory.

So you're trying to tell us that those four courses are contained in the single course at DeVry?

Measure it by the ranking, introduction algebra is math 105, ect… all universities get number rankings on none bias standards, it is how the state can determine a university from a private school and enable them to transfer credits. The number ranking is determined so that you can transfer credits to another university that has the same number ranking, the higher the ranking, the more advanced the class is. If you took that one calculus math class at Devry, then transferred to your collage, you would no longer need to take those 4 math classes. Understand?

Think about it like this, you must have at least have a calculus 216 to even be able to attended Devry. This means that it’s harder for you to get into Devry then it is for you to get into your home collage. I’m not exactly sure how the number system works, but have the general idea. I do know that it is for transferring credits, and being recognized by the state. Unlike schools like ITT, or any private schools for that matter.

So to answer your question… YES. It is more difficult to get into Devry then it is at your school… like it or not.

 

[JohnDuck]

Poolman, perhaps you should actually make an effort to know what you're talking about. Maybe ask some admissions counselor at an actual university whether DeVry's course will transfer.

Or you could continue to be laughably ignorant. Your choice, really.

 

[FrogPad]

Measure it by the ranking, introduction algebra is math 105, ect… all universities get number rankings on none bias standards, it is how the state can determine a university from a private school and enable them to transfer credits. The number ranking is determined so that you can transfer credits to another university that has the same number ranking, the higher the ranking, the more advanced the class is. If you took that one calculus math class at Devry, then transferred to your collage, you would no longer need to take those 4 math classes. Understand?

Think about it like this, you must have at least have a calculus 216 to even be able to attended Devry. This means that it’s harder for you to get into Devry then it is for you to get into your home collage. I’m not exactly sure how the number system works, but have the general idea. I do know that it is for transferring credits, and being recognized by the state. Unlike schools like ITT, or any private schools for that matter.

So to answer your question… YES. It is more difficult to get into Devry then it is at your school… like it or not.

From http://www.devry.edu/admissions/overview_admission_requirements.jsp

** Each applicant must have earned one of the following educational credentials from a DeVry-recognized organization: a high school diploma or equivalent, a General Educational Development (GED) certificate or a post-secondary degree.

** Have completed an appropriate amount of qualifying college-level work at DeVry-approved post-secondary institutions, with grades of at least C (70%) or a cumulative grade point average of at least 2.00.

** Have achieved both of the following conditions while in a U.S. high school:

**
*Class rank at the 50th percentile or above, or a cumulative grade point average of at least 2.70 on a 4.00 scale, at the end of the junior year or later.
-and-
*An average grade of at least B (80%) in a full-year high school mathematics course at the level of Algebra I or above.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

The only reason people are pushing on you so hard dude, is you are making statements out of... hmm, I don't wan't to necessary call it ignorance... but maybe, blind faith. You seem to be arguing that your school offers an equivalent degree. It does not. It instead offers a engineering technology degree. You have showed beyond doubt that your classes are not equivalent to what someone getting a BS would take. This is the problem! You are denying this.

 

[chroot]

If you took that one calculus math class at Devry, then transferred to your collage, you would no longer need to take those 4 math classes. Understand?

You're insane. From DeVry's course catalog:

MATH-216- Applied Calculus I
This course covers calculus skills needed to solve engineering technology problems. Topics include functions and limits, methods of differentiation, and integration and related applications. Calculus methods are applied to algebraic, logarithmic and trigonometric functions, emphasizing problem-solving rather than proof of theorems. Computer software is used throughout the course.Prerequisite: MATH-181/ 5- 5

That means it's basically a watered-down Calc I class. What on Earth makes you think this one mickey mouse class is equivalent to two years of mathematics in a regular university? Are you nuts? Do you have any clue at all what you're talking about? This class doesn't even mention differential equations!

Think about it like this, you must have at least have a calculus 216 to even be able to attended Devry.

The http://www.devry.edu/cacatalog/index.jsp?catSelection=/cacatalog/xmlnode/cacatalog/cet_program.jsp begs to differ. It shows two classes before calculus as part of the standard curriculum.

Futhermore, the admissions requirements page makes no mention of requiring calculus classes for admission, so I presume you're simply making this crap up. Do you think we don't know how to use google or something?

This means that it’s harder for you to get into Devry then it is for you to get into your home collage.

For the love of God...

Unlike schools like ITT, or any private schools for that matter.

So my credits from Stanford wouldn't be accepted anywhere else, eh?

So to answer your question… YES. It is more difficult to get into Devry then it is at your school… like it or not.

From Peterson's:

Freshman Admission

DeVry requires a high school transcript, an interview, CPT, TOEFL scores for international students. SAT I or ACT scores are recommended.

Entrance Difficulty

DeVry assesses its entrance difficulty as minimally difficult; moderately difficult for electronics engineering technology. For the fall 2002 freshman class, 66% of the applicants were accepted.

Pretty tough, eh? You don't even need to take the SAT.

- Warren

 

[ranger]

...
If you took that one calculus math class at Devry, then transferred to your collage, you would no longer need to take those 4 math classes. Understand?

Holy **** dude! According to this, Devry's calculus I is equivalent to calculus I-III and differential equations? This is utterly pure ignorance. Stop pulling crap out of no where and listen to what everyone is telling you. If possible, try to honestly answer a few of them.

 

[chroot]

I agree with FrogPad, it's just offensive to sit here and listen to this kid try to convince us one dumbed-down (no proofs?!) class on Calc I is the equivalent of my many years of math education. It's beyond annoying or amusing -- it's insulting.

- Warren

 

[chroot]

What's really disgusting is that these are the two highest math classes offered by DeVry:

MATH-230- Applied Calculus II
Topics include sequences, series (especially MacLaurin, Taylor and Fourier), differential equations and difference equations, emphasizing problem-solving methods. Computer software such as MATLAB is used to aid in problem-solving and analyzing concept application.Prerequisite: MATH-216/ 3- 3
MATH-233- Discrete Mathematics
This course introduces discrete mathematics as applied to computer engineering problems. Topics include continuous versus discrete difference equations, data structures, graph theory and numerical methods for discrete systems. Computer software is used in problem modeling and solutions.Prerequisite: MATH-216/ 3- 3

A weakened version of calc II and discrete... and they're not even part of the 'engineering' curriculum. What a f'ing joke.

- Warren