Is energy needed to maintain an electromagnetic field?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of energy in electromagnetic fields, particularly focusing on whether energy is needed to maintain such fields and the implications for battery usage in coils. Participants explore the generation of magnetic fields through voltage application, energy dissipation in resistance, and the potential for energy recovery.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that applying a voltage to a coil generates a magnetic field, questioning whether this would deplete the battery or allow for energy storage in the magnetic field.
  • Another participant responds that the battery will eventually empty, as energy is dissipated through resistance, although some energy can be recovered when the battery is disconnected.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that using superconductors could allow for energy storage without losses due to resistance.
  • Questions are raised about the existence of materials that can become magnetic through applied voltage without electron flow, which would minimize energy loss.
  • One participant clarifies that the material discussed does not become magnetic in that manner, emphasizing that current flow is necessary for generating a magnetic field.
  • Another participant explains that in an ideal coil with DC voltage, current could increase indefinitely, while in non-ideal coils, resistance limits the current, and discusses energy recovery techniques using AC voltage or switched voltage.
  • One participant notes that while energy could theoretically be recovered from the magnetic field to recharge the battery, it would not result in a net gain of energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on energy recovery and the implications of resistance in coils. There is no consensus on the existence of materials that could generate magnetic fields without energy loss, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the efficiency and practicality of energy recovery methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations related to resistance in wires and the ideal versus non-ideal behavior of coils, as well as the complexities involved in energy recovery processes.

physea
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Hello

Is we apply a voltage at the ends of a coil, a magnetic field will be generated? Is that correct?

Will that empty the battery that is responsible for the voltage or a partial energy from the battery will be stored in the magnetic field of the coil and after that the battery will not empty forever?

If that's the case, can we get back the energy from the magnetic field, to charge the battery in a reversible way?

Thanks!
 
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Hi,

The battery goes empty: once the magnetic field is built up, all the energy the battery delivers is dissipated in the resistance the wire represents, to the tune of V x I.

At the instant the battery is disconnected, the self-inductance of the coil generates an electric potential that can recover a small amount of energy from the decaying field -- but again the resistance of the wire dissipates most of that.
 
Isn't there a material that will become magnetic due to the voltage applied to it and not due to electron flow that produces energy loss due to resistance?
 
I am not aware of such a material, but materials isn't really my field.
 
physea said:
Isn't there a material that will become magnetic due to the voltage applied to it and not due to electron flow that produces energy loss due to resistance?
Note that the material in your post #1 isn't magnetic: it conducts a current and the current is the source of the magnetic field.
 
physea said:
Is we apply a voltage at the ends of a coil, a magnetic field will be generated? Is that correct?

Will that empty the battery that is responsible for the voltage or a partial energy from the battery will be stored in the magnetic field of the coil and after that the battery will not empty forever?

If you apply a DC voltage and the coil is "ideal" then the current increases indefinitely. If it's a non-ideal coil the final value of the current is limited by the resistance.

You can do more interesting things using an AC voltage or a voltage that's switched on an off rapidly. For example when the voltage is ON the current in the coil (aka Inductor) increases storing energy in the coil. When the applied voltage is switched off you can recover that energy and you can do it at a different voltage to the applied voltage. This approach or a similar approach is used in DC to DC converters that transform say 9V to -9V or +12V.

PS: This is a very simplified explanation of how they work!
 
physea said:
If that's the case, can we get back the energy from the magnetic field, to charge the battery in a reversible way?

You could but you can never achieve an overall gain in energy. For example if you use the energy stored in the coil to recharge the battery you can't also use it to do anything else. So it would be a rather pointless exercise.
 

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