Is a High-Cost Undergraduate Degree Worth the Debt for Aspiring Scientists?

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In summary, the conversation discussed the high tuition costs at the University of Vermont, which is causing the individual to consider other options for their Ph.D. in physics. They discussed the possibility of using financial aid, grants, and scholarships to cover the costs, and also considered attending a cheaper school. The conversation concluded with a list of financial aid packages and scholarships available at the university.
  • #36
diazona said:
Here's what I'm wondering: at another college, you could get a physics education of comparable or possibly better quality at a lower cost. Perhaps $100,000, perhaps $10,000. So what exactly would you be getting from U. of Vermont that makes you think it's worth that extra $100K?

Well, I've been researching this university for a week. I saw in the catalog that they offer a B.S. and a M.S. in physics. Also, as an undergrad. in physics, you can get an opportunity in a research project with a faculty member.
 
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  • #37
contramundum said:
You could always go to the University of Florida (which is a pretty good school if I recall) for your bachelors and then go to Vermont for your masters/phd.

I would do that, but my mission is to get away from Florida. I'm trying to be independent and have my own life experiences. I have no job and I still live with my parents. Believe me when I say this, I've been looking for a job over a year now. I think it's time to "leave" the nest for a better life.
 
  • #38
What state do you live in? Edit: Nevermind. I understand wanting to get out of Florida, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. University of Florida is a perfectly good school, and after spending loads less on in-state tuition, you can go anywhere you want for grad school and pay nothing or next to nothing.
 
  • #39
Angry Citizen said:
What state do you live in?

Florida. I hate it here, too.
 
  • #40
Angry Citizen said:
What state do you live in? Edit: Nevermind. I understand wanting to get out of Florida, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. University of Florida is a perfectly good school, and after spending loads less on in-state tuition, you can go anywhere you want for grad school and pay nothing or next to nothing.

Yeah, but I really want to get out of here. I'm so desperate to start my own life. I'm 23 years old and I will have my A.A. this fall semester. I did so much research into this school, but the sacrifice of being in debt is painful. I'm sure someone here in this community is having this experience.
 
  • #41
Eh, I hate it in Texas. Like I said (I edited my post) you should probably bite the bullet and look forward to grad school.
 
  • #42
Angry Citizen said:
Eh, I hate it in Texas. Like I said (I edited my post) you should probably bite the bullet and look forward to grad school.

Its something to think about. Good thing this is not a final decision.
 
  • #43
kaos86 said:
Well, I've been researching this university for a week. I saw in the catalog that they offer a B.S. and a M.S. in physics. Also, as an undergrad. in physics, you can get an opportunity in a research project with a faculty member.
Well yeah, but you can do that pretty much anywhere. Is there something specific to University of Vermont that really makes you want to go there, that you can't get anywhere else?
 
  • #44
They do have some pretty darn good maple syrup up there.
 
  • #45
diazona said:
Well yeah, but you can do that pretty much anywhere. Is there something specific to University of Vermont that really makes you want to go there, that you can't get anywhere else?

well, the U. of Vermont is built in the city of Burlington. Thus, I don't need a car and I could walk anywhere if I want. The bus is free to U. of Vermont students, too. I know some universities offer free transportation from there shuttle buses, however; when I finish school, how will I get around now? I really want a small city or city by the university. I looked at different websites saying that you can walk any where or use a bike in the U. of Vermont. I wish I can take the car I'm sharing with my brother, but I think he needs it more since he's not going to school anymore(He's got his A.A. degree but he does not want to go to a university).
 
  • #46
Math Is Hard said:
They do have some pretty darn good maple syrup up there.

Maybe I'll taste it if I made my final choice.
 
  • #47
I just wanted to add my vote to the 'it would be insane to spend that much money on tuition' tally.

All things being equal, it sounds like this school would be the place for you. But all things aren't equal. In the grand scheme of your life, is 4 years of earlier freedom worth the 20 years it will take to pay off the debt?

And for a fraction of that money you could buy yourself a pretty kickass car.
 
  • #48
Choppy said:
I just wanted to add my vote to the 'it would be insane to spend that much money on tuition' tally.

All things being equal, it sounds like this school would be the place for you. But all things aren't equal. In the grand scheme of your life, is 4 years of earlier freedom worth the 20 years it will take to pay off the debt?

And for a fraction of that money you could buy yourself a pretty kickass car.

Good point, it seems like I have to be rich to go to any university that is out-of state.
Maybe, I should do some more research and calculate the financial aid and loans. I hope I can find a university that has some "Cheap" method of transportation.
 
  • #49
It takes people 20-30 years to pay off the mortgage on a house. I don't see how everyone looks at that as being "okay". Why doesn't the same apply for student loans?
 
  • #50
If you have little or no income, you should be getting a good deal of financial aid...But it's still a going to be a lot of money that you have to pay, regardless.
 
  • #51
Why don't you want to go to college in Florida? If it's just because you "hate" it, then that could all change when you move out of your parents and gain some independence.
 
  • #52
contramundum said:
It takes people 20-30 years to pay off the mortgage on a house. I don't see how everyone looks at that as being "okay". Why doesn't the same apply for student loans?

Because you have to live SOMEWHERE. Whether you're paying for a mortgage or paying rent, you're still paying something every month. Do you have a 3rd option where you don't pay to live somewhere?
 
  • #53
Alienjoey said:
If you have little or no income, you should be getting a good deal of financial aid...But it's still a going to be a lot of money that you have to pay, regardless.

yeah, I did the math already. Its unbelievable and the financial-aid only covers half of the tuition. I can try to get a scholarship, but it will not be enough.
 
  • #54
kaos86 said:
yeah, I did the math already. Its unbelievable and the financial-aid only covers half of the tuition. I can try to get a scholarship, but it will not be enough.

You could find out what is required to establish residency in Vermont. Usually, you have to live there for a year. If you choose to do this, first find out from the University what they require to prove residency. Often, you'll have to have evidence that you've lived there (rent receipts, utility bills...that sort of thing).

Yes it's a year of waiting, but it might be worth the wait.
 
  • #55
lisab said:
You could find out what is required to establish residency in Vermont. Usually, you have to live there for a year. If you choose to do this, first find out from the University what they require to prove residency. Often, you'll have to have evidence that you've lived there (rent receipts, utility bills...that sort of thing).

Yes it's a year of waiting, but it might be worth the wait.

I would do this if I had enough money to rent a room in some hotel, or if I have family member there. Good idea though.
 
  • #56
kaos86 said:
well, the U. of Vermont is built in the city of Burlington. Thus, I don't need a car and I could walk anywhere if I want. The bus is free to U. of Vermont students, too. I know some universities offer free transportation from there shuttle buses, however; when I finish school, how will I get around now? I really want a small city or city by the university. I looked at different websites saying that you can walk any where or use a bike in the U. of Vermont. I wish I can take the car I'm sharing with my brother, but I think he needs it more since he's not going to school anymore(He's got his A.A. degree but he does not want to go to a university).
But again, there's nothing specific to U. of Vermont in there. Plenty of other schools (dare I say most) are located in small towns where everything in town is within walking distance, and I'm sure many other schools have arrangements to provide free or heavily discounted public transportation for students. (Bear in mind that that's where part of your tuition money would be going) Heck, pretty much everything you've said you like about UV is equally true of Princeton, where I went to college, and Princeton's tuition is nearly $10000 cheaper. Plus, financial aid can easily cover 3/4 of the total cost of attendance, or more. Maybe you should look into going there.
 
  • #57
diazona said:
But again, there's nothing specific to U. of Vermont in there. Plenty of other schools (dare I say most) are located in small towns where everything in town is within walking distance, and I'm sure many other schools have arrangements to provide free or heavily discounted public transportation for students. (Bear in mind that that's where part of your tuition money would be going) Heck, pretty much everything you've said you like about UV is equally true of Princeton, where I went to college, and Princeton's tuition is nearly $10000 cheaper. Plus, financial aid can easily cover 3/4 of the total cost of attendance, or more. Maybe you should look into going there.

Sounds like a nice place, but its a hard school to get into. The U. of Vermont is an average entrance. If I tried to transfer to Princeton, I'm sure I'll get rejected.
 
  • #58
Did some calculations. I just subtract the total four year tuition with the financial-aid:

Loan Balance: $135,248.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $135,248.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $1,556.44
Number of Payments: 120

Cumulative Payments: $186,772.53
Total Interest Paid: $51,524.53

One possibility with the Stafford interest rate and the loan term.
 
  • #59
kaos86 said:
well, the U. of Vermont is built in the city of Burlington. Thus, I don't need a car and I could walk anywhere if I want. The bus is free to U. of Vermont students, too. I know some universities offer free transportation from there shuttle buses, however; when I finish school, how will I get around now? I really want a small city or city by the university. I looked at different websites saying that you can walk any where or use a bike in the U. of Vermont. I wish I can take the car I'm sharing with my brother, but I think he needs it more since he's not going to school anymore(He's got his A.A. degree but he does not want to go to a university).
I don't get it. This is why you want to get in 200K of debt??
 
  • #60
kaos86 said:
Sounds like a nice place, but its a hard school to get into. The U. of Vermont is an average entrance. If I tried to transfer to Princeton, I'm sure I'll get rejected.
Well, true, Princeton is pretty competitive, but you can't be sure you wouldn't get in. (Though for the record, you can't transfer to Princeton, they only accept applicants as freshmen) (EDIT: sorry, I didn't realize you were already a college student)

Anyway, the point I really wanted to make was that there's really no reason to be paying that much to attend college. Any college. What you're describing as your ideal university sounds a lot like a pretty typical one, and I don't see any reason for you to be so attached to the University of Vermont. If I were in your situation, I would have dropped the idea of going there pretty quickly once I found out how much it costs.
 
  • #61
cristo said:
Why don't you want to go to college in Florida? If it's just because you "hate" it, then that could all change when you move out of your parents and gain some independence.

To build on Cristo's comment -

When I turned 18, I promptly moved 100 miles away from my parents. I got a job, rented an apartment, and found a roommate to offset rent and utility costs. I was still close enough to visit my parents when I wanted to, but far enough away that I could live my own life. It worked out very well.

Your profile says you're a student at Valencia. I'm sure you don't want to go to UCF, since that probably means living at home with your parents. But what about the other 10 schools in the state university system? (USF, UF, FSU, UNF, UWF, FAU... the list goes on) You could move away and be independent, but still pay in-state tuition rates.
 
  • #62
Jokerhelper said:
I don't get it. This is why you want to get in 200K of debt??

Nah, just doing some research and making some calculations. You people are really helping me here. I really appreciate it.
 
  • #63
Bill_B said:
To build on Cristo's comment -

When I turned 18, I promptly moved 100 miles away from my parents. I got a job, rented an apartment, and found a roommate to offset rent and utility costs. I was still close enough to visit my parents when I wanted to, but far enough away that I could live my own life. It worked out very well.

Your profile says you're a student at Valencia. I'm sure you don't want to go to UCF, since that probably means living at home with your parents. But what about the other 10 schools in the state university system? (USF, UF, FSU, UNF, UWF, FAU... the list goes on) You could move away and be independent, but still pay in-state tuition rates.

I'll double check on the universities in my state, but I just hope they have free transportation for shuttle buses and on-campus housing.
 
  • #64
If you're determined to leave Florida you could look into UVA or UNC. Apparently they give pretty good OOS finaid.
 
  • #65
diazona said:
Well, true, Princeton is pretty competitive, but you can't be sure you wouldn't get in. (Though for the record, you can't transfer to Princeton, they only accept applicants as freshmen) (EDIT: sorry, I didn't realize you were already a college student)

Wait, a transfer student has a bigger chance getting into a hard-entrance university? I should try but I only have a 3.0 GPA from my community college. Do you think it needs to get higher for a better chance? I will try if I only need a 3.0 or higher from the GPA scale.
 
  • #66
kaos86 said:
I'll double check on the universities in my state, but I just hope they have free transportation for shuttle buses and on-campus housing.

Sorry, but why do you even care if the transportation is free? Paying for a monthly bus pass should be the least of your worries financially. Plus, in any case I doubt it's actually free anyway, most likely it if a transportation pass is offered there will be some sort of mandatory fee included in your tuition fees, whether hidden or not.
 
  • #67
Jokerhelper said:
Sorry, but why do you even care if the transportation is free? Paying for a monthly bus pass should be the least of your worries financially. Plus, in any case I doubt it's actually free anyway, most likely it if a transportation pass is offered there will be some sort of mandatory fee included in your tuition fees, whether hidden or not.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I read that. "40,000 per year in tuition? No problem. 200 per year in bus passes? NO WAY!"
 
  • #68
Jokerhelper said:
Sorry, but why do you even care if the transportation is free? Paying for a monthly bus pass should be the least of your worries financially. Plus, in any case I doubt it's actually free anyway, most likely it if a transportation pass is offered there will be some sort of mandatory fee included in your tuition fees, whether hidden or not.

That's what I'm looking at. Hidden charges and probably more hidden charges from this school. I just want a university that can be reliable for transportation. I read the review from a website about this university and the students review it. They had different topics about the university: Academics, Diversity, on-campus housing, transportation, etc...

BTW, the website is Collegeprowler.com
 
Last edited:
  • #69
Do all US States charge higher rates for out-of-state students? I'm surprised by this.
 
  • #70
kaos86 said:
That's what I'm looking at. Hidden charges and probably more hidden charges from this school. I just want a university that can be reliable for transportation. I read the review from a website about this university and the students review it. They had different topics about the university: Academics, Diversity, on-campus housing, transportation, etc...

BTW, the website is Collegeprowler.com
If I were you I'd try to ignore those kinds of websites as much as possible. us students can be very trivial with what is relevant and important for a good university/college. I'd be surprised if more than 2% of those ratings were from physics students. Finding good instructors and most importantly taking time to do your own studying will be far more helpful than anything else a university offer.

Also, since you care so much about public transportation, my city (Calgary) was named a few years ago to have the worst public transportation in major North America cities. Yet I've hardly ever had problems getting to my school on time. If it can't get any worse than my situation, you will most likely be fine.
 

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