Is Love Truly Real? Perspectives from Science and Society

[Polly]

Don't think many of us have had the experience of being in love and in a depression at the same time, most of the time it felt like a joy secretly and slowly seeping through a thick layer of numb pain. Now that the depression is dissipating, I am starting to feel a die-hard anxiety wrestling with gentle euphoria, and I am but a stranger in my own world...love is real-ly unreal.

 

[the number 42]

...the Golden Rule - Do unto others as one would have done unto onself. (This does not apply to masochists).

If you make the assumption that what you like (e.g. Mozart) is what others will like (e.g. heavy metal fans) you'll soon find that 'doing unto others' can backfire more times than not. I was told the Golden Rule is 'see things from the other person's perspective'. If you try to find out what others like, and do that unto them, they'll be a lot happier about it.

Anyway, what have you got against masochists?

 

[Astronuc]

If you make the assumption that what you like (e.g. Mozart) is what others will like (e.g. heavy metal fans) you'll soon find that 'doing unto others' can backfire more times than not.

That is an misinterpretation of the rule. If one would not wish anyone to 'impose/force' their views/likes/dislikes/rules upon one, then do not do that to others.

I was told the Golden Rule is 'see things from the other person's perspective'.

Or, 'walk in the other's shoes.' Good perspective.

Anyway, what have you got against masochists?

Nothing, as long as they do not harm others.

 

[the number 42]

That is an misinterpretation of the rule. If one would not wish anyone to 'impose/force' their views/likes/dislikes/rules upon one, then do not do that to others.

So 'don't do unto others as you would not have them do unto you'. This is logical, but has the same problems e.g. if you made a living will stating that you didn't want to be resusitated in the event of certain conditions, then you wouldn't last long as a paramedic if you applied this rule to others. Unless I'm misinterpreting the rule again?

 

[franznietzsche]

So 'don't do unto others as you would not have them do unto you'. This is logical, but has the same problems e.g. if you made a living will stating that you didn't want to be resusitated in the event of certain conditions, then you wouldn't last long as a paramedic if you applied this rule to others. Unless I'm misinterpreting the rule again?

Its more misapplication than misinterpretation. your looking too much at the details. A person with a living will has one because they don't want to suffer. So being a paramedic making sure your patients don't suffer is a good thing.

 

[the number 42]

Its more misapplication than misinterpretation. your looking too much at the details. A person with a living will has one because they don't want to suffer. So being a paramedic making sure your patients don't suffer is a good thing.

Yeah, but isn't it just way too easy to come up with these 'misapplications'? If a rule is something that is expected to be broadly generalisable, then the 'do unto others' rule just has too many exceptions to be a proper rule. Its more of an advertising jingle, something that we learned as kids that sticks in our heads and we don't really question.

 

[Moonbear]

Yeah, but isn't it just way too easy to come up with these 'misapplications'? If a rule is something that is expected to be broadly generalisable, then the 'do unto others' rule just has too many exceptions to be a proper rule. Its more of an advertising jingle, something that we learned as kids that sticks in our heads and we don't really question.

You're actually arguing semantics of the "do unto others" rule? How about instead of arguing the semantics, embrace the actual intent of it. It doesn't mean to force your ways upon them (because you wouldn't want them to force their ways upon you), it means to respect them and their wishes the same way you'd want others to respect you and your wishes.

 

[the number 42]

You're actually arguing semantics of the "do unto others" rule? How about instead of arguing the semantics, embrace the actual intent of it. It doesn't mean to force your ways upon them (because you wouldn't want them to force their ways upon you), it means to respect them and their wishes the same way you'd want others to respect you and your wishes.

The "do unto" part suggests an action rather than an attitude, which colours the entire spirit of the saying. "Respect others and their wishes the same way you'd want others to respect you and your wishes" is much less prone to misinterpretation, but I prefer the more proactive "Do unto others as they would have you do unto them".

 

[franznietzsche]

Yeah, but isn't it just way too easy to come up with these 'misapplications'?

ONly because whoever worded it assumed people were obviously smarter than that.

If a rule is something that is expected to be broadly generalisable, then the 'do unto others' rule just has too many exceptions to be a proper rule. Its more of an advertising jingle, something that we learned as kids that sticks in our heads and we don't really question.

It wasn't an exception. It was a stupid interpretation of what a person wanted.

 

[the number 42]

ONly because whoever worded it assumed people were obviously smarter than that.

It wasn't an exception. It was a stupid interpretation of what a person wanted.

Ooh Nitchy, you are in a bad mood

 

[franznietzsche]

Ooh Nitchy, you are in a bad mood

When am i ever in a good mood?

 

[the number 42]

When am i ever in a good mood?

I can't argue with that. Nitchy, you need the love of a good woman. Or at least hmup a bad one.

 

[the number 42]

(PS Sorry - were you trying to kill this thread?)

 

[tribdog]

(PS Sorry - were you trying to kill this thread?)

lol, that's funny

 

[franznietzsche]

I can't argue with that. Nitchy, you need the love of a good woman. Or at least hmup a bad one.

I've *had* more than a few bad ones.

The good ones are no where to be found.

 

[the number 42]

I've *had* more than a few bad ones.

The good ones are no where to be found.

Have you considered the ancient practice on onanism, as a temporary measure of course.

 

[Polly]

The good ones are no where to be found.

A good woman with a fine mind, that's tough tough tough Franz. So far in my life I have only met one who measures up - a Taiwanese history major, sweet natured and highly evolved. Unfortunately for you she is married with two kids.

Ever considered learning Chinese and coming to China/Taiwan to explore? Most of us in Hong Kong though are superficial and frivolous/strong, cold and hard.

In the affairs of the heart, one does need tonnes and tonnes of luck.

 

[franznietzsche]

A good woman with a fine mind, that's tough tough tough Franz. So far in my life I have only met one who measures up - a Taiwanese history major, sweet natured and highly evolved. Unfortunately for you she is married with two kids.

I've met one. She's a psych major down at UCLA. Absolutely fascinating person she is. I love debating and arguing with her, because whenever we discuss philosophy, we always start from certain assumptions (everyone does), our world view. She's the only liberal I've ever met, who, if i accept her world view as a starting point, i will in fact arrive at the same conclusions as her. Of course, i don't accept her world view as correct, but that's a matter of opinion, world views are inherently a priori.

Furthermore, she's one of very few people I've ever met smart to actually understand that people having a different world view does not make them 'stupid' or 'morons', because world views are not something determined rationally--they are inherently assumed, on the basis of a value judgement, and all value judgements are a priori. There is no way to prove something is better than anything else (morally, ethically, etc.) without making an assumption. (a fundamental premise of Nietzsche's rejection of the concepts of good and evil as polar opposites).

Dear god. Look at this, just thinking about her gets me into a discourse on philosophy.

Problem with most women (most people to be fair, but I'm not interested in guys, so they're not an issue) is that they have nothing interesting to say or on their minds. She always does. WE can talk literature, philosophy, science, religion (i'm an atheist, she's a fairly devout christian) and its always interesting and captivating.

Ever considered learning Chinese and coming to China/Taiwan to explore? Most of us in Hong Kong though are superficial and frivolous/strong, cold and hard.

In the affairs of the heart, one does need tonnes and tonnes of luck.

Thailand maybe

Unfortunately luck is a rather scarce quantity, its like a zero sum game, for every person with x amount of good luck, there's a guy with x amount of bad luck (or a group of people with bad luck totaling x, but you get the idea).

 

[scarecrow]

Love is definitely an attraction of forces. I like to say that love is when you can feel the other person's heart pumping your own blood.

 

[The_Professional]

the right skill and some luck...

 

[Danger]

I was wondering how the hell this thread got so big, so fast, until I thought to look at the posting dates. I don't have time to read it, but if I may quote Harlan Ellison: "Love Ain't Nothin' But Sex Misspelled" (capitalized because it was a title). I don't actually believe that, but it makes as much sense as anything else.

 

[hypatia]

"Do you feel the wuv tonigh" William Hung

 

[Danger]

"Do you feel the wuv tonigh" William Hung

I did, until you went to sleep on me.
What are you doing up again so soon?

 

[motai]

Problem with most women (most people to be fair, but I'm not interested in guys, so they're not an issue) is that they have nothing interesting to say or on their minds. She always does. WE can talk literature, philosophy, science, religion (i'm an atheist, she's a fairly devout christian) and its always interesting and captivating.

franznietzsche, from my past experiences those qualities are extremely rare in people nowadays. I can't talk to girls for less than a minute without losing their attention. Most of the time, they are the extremely superficial type "Oh my GOD! Did you see what she wore today??!" that I don't get along with very well. Everything else glazes over their heads and its difficult to maintain conversation. I am just looking for someone who would actually care about me, without ulterior agendas, without monetary interference, and someone who I can talk without about anything, anytime. Its not much, but so far it has been extremely difficult.

Oh, and adding to my bad luck, I have only personally met two girls who fit your descriptions, and both have boyfriends . Erggghhhh. Life sucks like that. Further compounded by the fact that I have a lot of pent up compassion that I want to express, but have not the means to do so.

 

[franznietzsche]

franznietzsche, from my past experiences those qualities are extremely rare in people nowadays. I can't talk to girls for less than a minute without losing their attention. Most of the time, they are the extremely superficial type "Oh my GOD! Did you see what she wore today??!" that I don't get along with very well. Everything else glazes over their heads and its difficult to maintain conversation. I am just looking for someone who would actually care about me, without ulterior agendas, without monetary interference, and someone who I can talk without about anything, anytime. Its not much, but so far it has been extremely difficult.

Oh, and adding to my bad luck, I have only personally met two girls who fit your descriptions, and both have boyfriends . Erggghhhh. Life sucks like that. Further compounded by the fact that I have a lot of pent up compassion that I want to express, but have not the means to do so.

WEll she's the only one I've met so far, and she had a boyfriend when i met her, though that certainly didn't stop me from trying. A year and a half later, it looks like things are finally starting to work out--well, as much as they ever have. WE're still some 250 miles apart, but things are looking much better right now than at any point before.

And as for the superficial types, i know what you mean. I've basically come up with a number of subtle jokes and allusions i always use on first dates--if she doesn;t get them, I'm not wasting my time with a second date. Needless to say, i haven't had a second date since going away to college.

 

[faust9]

"Do you feel the wuv tonigh" William Hung

"This concept of 'wuv' confuses and infuriates us!" Lur, Ruler of the planet
Omicron Persei 8

 

[motai]

WEll she's the only one I've met so far, and she had a boyfriend when i met her, though that certainly didn't stop me from trying. A year and a half later, it looks like things are finally starting to work out--well, as much as they ever have. WE're still some 250 miles apart, but things are looking much better right now than at any point before.

In my case its more like 1500 miles...

And as for the superficial types, i know what you mean. I've basically come up with a number of subtle jokes and allusions i always use on first dates--if she doesn;t get them, I'm not wasting my time with a second date. Needless to say, i haven't had a second date since going away to college.

I tend to do that when I first meet people just to see who they are like, its pretty much the only way I am able to find friends anymore.

 

[hypatia]

wuv is a many splendor thing faust9

 

[Monique]

people having a different world view does not make them 'stupid' or 'morons', because world views are not something determined rationally [..] There is no way to prove something is better than anything else (morally, ethically, etc.)
[..]
Problem with most women is that they have nothing interesting to say or on their minds.

That is some superficiality on your side. They have nothing interesting to say, since you are not interested in them. When I talk to other people, I notice that they've got a lot of interesting things to say (ask the right questions and listen). Being big-headed and a know-it-all really puts off people to share their views.

Notice in your quote how you look down on women, while you just stated that you shouldn't judge.

 

[Danger]

wuv is a many splendor thing faust9

Wuv is nice, but thex doesn't cost as much.

Incidentally, git thee down to "Old TV Shows" #27.