Is My Three Phase Meter Giving Accurate Measurements?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the accuracy of a three-phase power meter used in an office setting, particularly focusing on the readings from a duct heater and lighting system. Participants explore potential issues with the meter's readings, including negative power factor (PF) values and zero voltage readings on one phase.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the negative PF reading for the duct heater is unexpected, as resistive loads typically have a PF close to 100%.
  • Another participant suggests that the phase angle differences between line-to-line and line-to-neutral voltage sensing could confuse the meter's readings.
  • Concerns are raised about the zero voltage reading on phase C, with speculation that it may not be connected or that the meter connection is faulty.
  • Participants discuss the distribution of lighting across phases, indicating that lights do not require three-phase power but can be balanced among phases.
  • Questions are posed regarding the size and type of transformers and meters being used, as well as their configuration (delta or wye).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the accuracy of the meter readings and the configuration of the electrical system. There is no consensus on the cause of the issues raised, and multiple competing views regarding the meter's functionality and the electrical setup remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for further information about the transformers and meters, including their specifications and configurations, which may influence the readings. The discussion does not resolve the technical uncertainties surrounding the meter's performance.

Shant
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Hello all,

Recently one of the power meters on one of our office's panelboards has been giving sensor garbage, calling the others' measurements into question.

I have two 277/480Y transformers, one going to a two phase 480V duct heater and one going to the lighting (the meter reads three phase).

The duct heater reads as follows:
Load:.1KW
A 277.8V 0A 0%PF
B 280.2V .6A -23.9%PF
C 281.8V .5A 72.2%PF

And the lighting:
Load: .4KW
A 280V 0A 0%PF
B 278V 1.5A 99.9%PF
C 0V 0A 0%PF


There definitely seems to be at least one thing wrong: Why am I getting a negative PF for a duct heater? Apart from that, I'm unsure why I'm reading 0V on phase C for a supposed 3 phase unit. It isn't mislabeled; the meter is telling me three phase on the display. I'm not sure why lights would need 3PH power in the first place.

I would like to be sure that something is wrong before I call for repairs again. Anything seem off?
 
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For the heater, the line-to-line load for 480 volts also means the current phase angles will be different relative to the line-to-neutral voltage sensing connections for B and C. The phase angle should be the same, but of opposite direction, on each. Technically, you're still consuming power through both, so the PF should still be positive. But with a resistive load, your PF should be nearly 100%, yet a L-to-L phase angle difference can confuse the readings. Combined, it should show the equivalent of 100%. But I don't really know how the meters work to handle that situation.

Lights don't need three phase. But lights can be distributed among phases to keep things in balance. Yours apparently are not. And it appears that either phase C is not even connected, or the meter connection is not there. Everything is coming on over phase B (which is not necessarily the same phase as phase B on the heater). One way to approach balance is to have the heater on 2 phases like it is, and the lights on the remaining phase. How your transformer phase (mis-)wirings are rotated could in fact do that, anyway.

How big are these transformers and meters? Got photos?
 
The meter is the e-mon-d-mon 3000 series.

http://www.emon.com/products_class3000.html"

Pictures on the way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So this is not utility measurements, but just internal monitoring? Are the transformers utility transformers or smaller internal units? If non-utility, I'd like to know the primary voltage and type (delta or wye).
 
They're utility. The monitors are set up to measure the office's (it's a leased space within a complex) individual consumption.
 

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