Is prostitution a form of modern day slavery?

[Saint]

Some people think that prostitute is not immoral, they "work" to get their pay, just as other types of professions.

Prostitution is considered the oldest business in history, it existed in feudal system long time ago.

What do you think?

My answer is : YES, it is immoral.

 

[arildno]

Since you, by adhering to scripture as the sole basis and source of morality, you are at the outset disqualified as a subject with moral authority.
Only when you have developed an individual, moral core in your personality which do not need any external props to guide your actions, can you become a full participant in a reasoned discussion of moral issues.
In the mean time, learn to grow up and become an adult.

 

[jcsd]

Judge not, lest ye be judged. - Matthew 7:1

 

[Gokul43201]

Whore not, lest we be pimped. - Gokul 6:9

 

[Gokul43201]

Mary Magdalene, consort of Jesus Christ, was a prostitute (but we're told she was penitent, so that makes it okay). Was she not the First Apostle, the illuminata illuminatrix ?

 

[humanino]

Great answers Gokul !

Saint : you definitely need a "I have problems with sex" forum.

 

[Artman]

Mary Magdalene, consort of Jesus Christ, was a prostitute ...

This is the traditional belief, not at all biblical.

 

[humanino]

Yeah, not biblical because it has been taken away by those horrible guys in Roma.

 

[jimmy p]

Whore not, lest we be pimped. - Gokul 6:9

Amen Brother!

 

[aychamo]

These topics are as stupid as the original poster. There is no universal qualifed moral authority. What's moral is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Monique]

It's a social science and there are definitely moral rules we all have to follow: they are written in the letter of the law. Eliciting debate is not stupid.

 

[ray b]

Yeah, not biblical because it has been taken away by those horrible guys in Roma.

what did "THEY" take away and hide
the fact that JC was married to mary mags perhaps
why would JC and his mom care that the wine ran out
at "SOMEBODYS" wedding as that is the bridegroom's responceabilty
:surprise:

the hooker charge is a church slander againts mary mags
remember there are a bunch of marys in this tale
and they have been mixed up by the church


back to the first question, prostitution is not immoral
SEX is not immoral
the christian church is immoral, repressive, anti-learning, and willing to kill
anyone who dares to point out these facts, look at their history
the fact that they RESENTLY have lost the power to force their will on others
doesnot excise their history of such acts

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

How is prostitution not immoral logically? 1. Your taking a risk at bringing a child into the world with parents who don't love each other. 2. By supporting the industry you help put women in a career that may result in them ending up poor when they are older. There are other ways it causes negative things to happen - those are just two examples.

 

[humanino]

Maybe the problem is what leads today some people in prostitution, that is for social reasons somebody is lead to those extrem solutions to survive. But it might very well be that prostitution by itself has in the past been considered "normal" and useful to society. It may very well be that in another social organisation, prostitutes use contraceptivs (=no unwanted child) and do this job because they like it (=money + not too difficult + ... com'on, don't you like it?). As for the other negative things Dooga is mentioning : are those linked to prostitution by itself, or is it merely a consequence of the way prostitution occurs in our rich developped countries ? Monique : what lead your country to organise prostitution ? It is certainly not only the fact that anyway prostitution is happening, so better tax it.

For the sake of reference here : I am not really pro/contra prostitution. I am playing the devil's opinion. The truth is : I am hardly confronted to prostitution in my life.

 

[Nooac]

First you need to consider the relevant factors: the need to propogate the species, man's happiness (both individually and colectively), man is a social animal who forms not only large groups but also smaller more intimate groups, and further consider a need for stability in these groups.

When you consider these factors, it seems apparent to me that prostitution is ultimately devisive and not conducive to man's best interest and therefore should be considered immoral.

arildno responded:

Since you, by adhering to scripture as the sole basis and source of morality, you are at the outset disqualified as a subject with moral authority.
Only when you have developed an individual, moral core in your personality which do not need any external props to guide your actions, can you become a full participant in a reasoned discussion of moral issues.
In the mean time, learn to grow up and become an adult

This argument is so specious and wrong on so many levels that I ccould hardly begin to correct them in the time I have available. I suggest a class in logical reasoning.


According to Gokul43201

Mary Magdalene, consort of Jesus Christ, was a prostitute (but we're told she was penitent, so that makes it okay). Was she not the First Apostle, the illuminata illuminatrix ?

This is unresponsive to the original question. What is your point?


As for Ray b, I find it interesting that you mention "church slander" since your response seems to be an argument by way of slandering "the christian church"; which is no argument at all.

 

[K.J.Healey]

How is prostitution not immoral logically? 1. Your taking a risk at bringing a child into the world with parents who don't love each other. 2. By supporting the industry you help put women in a career that may result in them ending up poor when they are older. There are other ways it causes negative things to happen - those are just two examples.

Im split on the issue.
The fact remains that the majority of their actions only affect their lives. Does eating at McDonalds promote an unhealthy lifestyle for those around you? Yes.

Logically the "love" of a child from its parents should have nothing to do with it. If there is a whore-baby could it not be put up for adoption? What about morning after pills? It aborts it before it has any sort of consciousness.

Logically prostitution is a choice of profession that is not immoral in the sense that immoral actions decrease the ability for a society to grow and induce pain and suffering to the general population. I myslef have never had a prostitute ruin my potential, nor has the majority of the population. It does not cause death or disease. It only affects a small minority of children perhaps raised in that situation where they are basically forced into the profession by their surroundings. But I believe that it brings more "pleasure" in a sense, to the general public than death and decay.

A decent comparison is driving a car with a child in it. You are making the choice for your children that they accept the risk of being in that car, given the staggering numbers of deaths in auto related accidents. But the catch is that driving provides a service that increases the happiness in your life, and helps the society grow. Remember that you can't say "but EVERYONE drives a car, its necessary in this world." Because scaling has nothing to do with it. Immorality should be a trait that does not increase with numbers. If only one person did it in the world, or a million people did it, moral is moral and immoral is immoral. Its not a matter of how many people perform the action, but rather how many people are affected by the action. I believe the government banning autmobiles would be immoral (never would happen). It would affect too many people, but really only a handful are the cause.

This is sort of contradictory to any argument I've made at all though. I do that when iim not sure about my stance. I gues you would have to define a "personal morality" and a "social morality" where one thing can be socially moral but personally immoral. Like if a person didn't have any friends or family and killed themself, it would be socially moral because it does not affect anyone other than himself. But the fact that it affects his wellbeing makes it personally immoral.

Im just ranting. Time to head to the airport for Miami, got to catch a flight. Later.

 

[graphic7]

I don't think you can strictly say prostitution is immoral (religious stigmas aside). There are plenty of circumstances that one may have to result to prostitution in order to bring food home everynight; you can disapprove, but you can't say it's immoral or just plain "wrong."

 

[K.J.Healey]

Yea, there's more of a gauge of immorality/morality of an action rather than a choice between the two. You'd have to ask "How moral is it?"

 

[BobG]

Prostitution isn't any more immoral than taking pay to fix someone's car, to wait on their table, to clean their house, or any other service job.

The more pertinent question is about it's social implications. In general, it doesn't exactly improve the stability of marriages.

Even then, its social implications have to be kept in perspective. It certainly has fewer adverse social effects than alcoholism or a gambling addiction (both on society as a whole and on marriages). It even has fewer adverse effects on a marriage than extra-marital affairs, especially if the affair is with a close friend of the family.

 

[Prometheus]

Prostitution is considered the oldest business in history, it existed in feudal system long time ago.

What do you think?

My answer is : YES, it is immoral.

What do I think?

I think that your talk about the oldest "business" in history in the same sentence that you mention the feudal system shows that you have no real concept of history at all.

You have the right to your opinion. However, I think that you are trying to preach, and that you are asking so many questions about morality in order to enable you to preach.

Prostitution itself if not immoral. Arrogant, selfish people such as yourself make value judgments about the actions of other people. Just because you would not engage in such activities yourself, you feel yourself so righteous that you can pass negative judgments about the morality involved.

 

[ray b]

As for Ray b, I find it interesting that you mention "church slander" since your response seems to be an argument by way of slandering "the christian church"; which is no argument at all.

slander is a FALSE charge
so true facts cannot be slander

and if a group has a true history of immoral acts
in my oppinon that shows their true nature far better then
all their moral BS

watch what they do, before following what they say
or as JC said it " actions not words "

 

[Prometheus]

When you consider these factors, it seems apparent to me that prostitution is ultimately devisive and not conducive to man's best interest and therefore should be considered immoral.

When YOU consider these factors, it seems apparent to ME...

When he considers these factors, is it really apparent to you, or is it simply your best guess interpreation of an ancient book? Have you dared to invest some original thought, or are you only allowing yourself to attempt as best you can to understand something written by someone else a long time ago?

 

[check]

When is someone going to start a "Is imposing your moral philosophy on others immoral?" thread?

 

[Moonbear]

Saint, you listed reasons why some would think prostitution is not immoral, and then state that you think it's immoral without giving any reasoning for your opinion.

I don't have any problem with prostitution as a profession. I gave it some thought. Who gets hurt by it, and is that worse than what they would experience if prostitution did not exist?

1) The two people at greatest risk would be the prostitute and the john for disease transmission. However, both go into this arrangement knowingly, and I think they can decide for themselves if this is an acceptable risk in their life.

2) The spouses of the johns. They too are at risk for any diseases their husband may bring home, and do not enter into the agreement willingly. However, in this case, the problem is not prostitution, but the dishonesty of the husband who has not told his wife that he has other sexual partners. Were only single men to use the services provided by prostitutes, this wouldn't be a problem at all. Someone also mentioned that it doesn't exactly promote a good marriage. However, it also isn't the cause of the deterioration of a marriage. If someone is seeking sexual interactions with someone other than his own wife, then the marriage is already dissolving.

3) Any children born as a result of the prostitute's activities. First, this is again not due to prostitution, per se, so much as the prostitute not using contraception correctly. However, even with the use of contraception, there is some risk of conception and that a child will be born. So, what about working in a service industry makes one a bad mother? Nothing. What makes this seem like a bad situation is the social stigma people like Saint place on prostitutes and then extend to their children. Yes, this child is likely to wind up with only one parent. This too is not by itself a bad thing. Afterall, if someone got married, then pregnant, and then her husband died while she was still pregnant, is that woman immoral for having a child who will be raised without a father? The reason for the father not being present is different, but the outcome the same.

Perhaps the immoral thing is the judgment of other people's character based on their choice of profession.

 

[Saint]

Reasons to be prostitute:
1) Laziness to work, they want to get quick money by just stretching wide their legs on bed.
2) Silliness and shamelessness to choose this contemptible profession
3) Most prostitute are drug addicts too, they need money to buy drugs, therefore they work as prostitute to earn fast money.
4) Has no moral conscience of the disgustable thing they do.

 

[Saint]

I mean prostitution is immoral, but not illegal in most countries nowadays.
In malaysia, prostitution is illegal, but the prostitutes won't be penalised when being caught by police; however, the pimps who gain profit from prostitution will be sued in court under the Women's Protection Law of Malaysia.

 

[hypnagogue]

Prostitution is the act of exchanging money for sexual favors. This in itself does not necessarily entail transmission of diseases, unwanted children, or marriage dissolutions. For instance, we could imagine a brothel that only hires disease free women and only accepts disease free clients, makes contraceptive use mandatory, and refuses to serve married men. This brothel would still be engaging in the activity of prostitution, and yet would not be engaging in any of the main moral complaints raised against it in this thread.

In other words, what seems to be really immoral about prostitution is the circumstances under which it usually occurs, as opposed to the act itself. Ironically, making prostitution illegal only exacerbates these circumstances by excluding any chance of regulating how it is conducted. If it were legal and was made to be conducted safely and conscienciously under penalty of law, what of the immoral residue would remain?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Reasons to be prostitute:
1) Laziness to work, they want to get quick money by just stretching wide their legs on bed.
2) Silliness and shamelessness to choose this contemptible profession
3) Most prostitute are drug addicts too, they need money to buy drugs, therefore they work as prostitute to earn fast money.
4) Has no moral conscience of the disgustable thing they do.

I believe prositution is immoral on the face of things. However, I also realize the people have difficult lives that drive them into bad circumstances. With this in mind, I prefer the christian ethic - I choose not to play God and judge others.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Reasons to be prostitute:
1) Laziness to work, they want to get quick money by just stretching wide their legs on bed.

This is what I find most amusing about Saint's arguments. He is always telling the reader a tiny bit more with his descriptions than is necessary. He could have simply said that prostitutes want to earn easy money while laying on their backs, but no -- he goes for the full-blown vivid description of the prostitute's legs stretching wide on the bed. There is a great irony in his presenting us with this mental pornography that wasn't present before in our thoughts.

 

[Saint]

I just spoke the truth.
I was solicited by pimps and prostitutes many times before while walking on street, they just suddenly came forward to me and asked, "Do you want women? Do you want sex? It is only 100 ringgit per deal. "
It is very embaressing and insulting to me.

They are shameless!

 

[Math Is Hard]

I just spoke the truth.
I was solicited by pimps and prostitutes many times before while walking on street, they just suddenly came forward to me and asked, "Do you want women? Do you want sex? It is only 100 ringgit per deal. "
It is very embaressing and insulting to me.

Why? Were they asking for too much money?

 

[Saint]

There are prostitutes everywhere in my country, especially in cities.
Normally they have their business in motels, low-class hotels, hair saloon, health center etc.
Some are street-prostitutes who approached men who walk alone.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Why would you adopt an attitude of disgust rather than sympathy? Maybe their unfortunate circumstances in life have had nothing better to offer to them.

 

[Prometheus]

This is what I find most amusing about Saint's arguments. He is always telling the reader a tiny bit more with his descriptions than is necessary. He could have simply said that prostitutes want to earn easy money while laying on their backs, but no -- he goes for the full-blown vivid description of the prostitute's legs stretching wide on the bed. There is a great irony in his presenting us with this mental pornography that wasn't present before in our thoughts.

I get the impression that he read this on one of the porn sights that he despises so much. He seems to be an expert on porn sites. Is he a hypocrit?

 

[Math Is Hard]

ok - sorry for the Vacation Bible School moment...

I get the impression that YES!, Saint is hypocritical, but probably does not mean to be. He is fallable, but all Christians are, according to the religion.
Christianity is one of the hardest philosophies/religions to follow because while the perfection that Christ embodied must always be strived for, it must also be realized that it is not attainable for people on earth. Even though there are clear delineations in the Bible about what is "wrong moral behavior", it still doesn't give carte-blanche for people to go around judging other people. In fact, judgement is only allowed when the follower can himself be declared above judgement. (just ain't going to happen)
I was hoping that Saint could see, if he is truly studious of his Christian doctines, that he must view the prostitute as his "little sister" and someone to be saved and helped, rather than someone to be thrown away and condemned.

 

[aychamo]

It's a social science and there are definitely moral rules we all have to follow: they are written in the letter of the law. Eliciting debate is not stupid.

Wrong. Laws are laws. Morals are morals.

What's immoral to one person may or may not be immoral to another person. There is no correct answer for asking if something is immoral or not because everyone has their own opinion on it.

Asking for peoples opinions is one thing, but a debate on morality is pointless as everyone has their own opinion.

 

[Gokul43201]

According to Gokul43201

{Mary Magdalene...blah blah}

This is unresponsive to the original question. What is your point?

Yes it is (unresponsive). I'm providing just the kind of post that Saint so often comes up with himself. Instead of discussing the issue in the context of previous posts/responses, he mostly makes some statement based on the Bible (or elsewhere), that is totally out of the flow of discussion.

That's exactly what I did here.

PS : See posts #25 and #32. They are prime examples of posting random facts related to the topic but counter to the flow of the discussion.

 

[BoulderHead]

There are prostitutes everywhere in my country, especially in cities.

What an immoral, evil, country!

Normally they have their business in motels, low-class hotels, hair saloon, health center etc.

You speak with some authority, I notice.

Some are street-prostitutes who approached men who walk alone.

Ahhh, there's nothing quite like a long walk...

 

[Gokul43201]

Come on you guys/gals...you talk as though you have no knowledge of Born Agains !

 

[BoulderHead]

He never addressed a question I asked of him concerning previous posts where he seemed to be blasting many elements of Xianity. Now he seems to be of Xian conviction and blasting away yet again. The common denominator is 'blasting', and F-A-N-A-T-C-I-S-M is what I think of all this, from one extreme to the other.

Yeuuchhh, is my final comment to be posted in any of these type threads. If he wants to discuss morality there is a forum here for that. If he wants to discuss religion there may still remain opportunity in the archives to post, dunno. To me, such does not belong in General.

 

[BobG]

Reasons to be prostitute:

3) Most prostitute are drug addicts too, they need money to buy drugs, therefore they work as prostitute to earn fast money.

This is only true for many of the prostitutes walking the street (maybe even most), many of who do wind up being exploited by pimps because the prostitute can't see any other way of escaping an already bad situation. This is a little different problem than prostitution itself. In fact, making prostitution illegal is the city's main tool for dealing with streetwalkers and pimps.

I think it would be hard to make any generalizations about the more professional businesses that exist almost invisibly. Even if you know at least some of the escort services are really dealing in prostitution, their method of business seldom causes problems for the city.

Someone also mentioned that it doesn't exactly promote a good marriage. However, it also isn't the cause of the deterioration of a marriage. If someone is seeking sexual interactions with someone other than his own wife, then the marriage is already dissolving.

I'm not sure what you mean. Hopefully, you're not suggesting Clinton's Whitehouse escapades were because of Hillary. But, I agree, prostitution itself has little to do with the real problem.

 

[Moonbear]

Reasons to be prostitute:
1) Laziness to work, they want to get quick money by just stretching wide their legs on bed.

I'd hardly consider their profession a lazy one. First of all, they aren't looking for handouts, they ARE working. For those who operate actual businesses, it operates like any other business. For those who are out on the streets, they sure have a harder life than most who head to a cozy office during the day and push around papers on a desk. Try standing outside on a cold, winter day wearing a miniskirt.

2) Silliness and shamelessness to choose this contemptible profession

That's your own judgement of them, not something about the profession itself, so not pertinent to the discussion.

3) Most prostitute are drug addicts too, they need money to buy drugs, therefore they work as prostitute to earn fast money.

Do you really know this for certain? What about in places where prostitution is legal? Perhaps being led to drug abuse and addiction is a consequence of being marginalized in society rather than a prerequisite for joining the profession? Besides, drug addiction is not prostitution. It is a disease, and an entirely separate topic. Many movie stars also have had drug addictions, as have stock-brokers, corporate CEOs, etc. Are those all immoral professions because people in them are addicted to drugs?

4) Has no moral conscience of the disgustable thing they do.

You seem to be the only one here disgusted by this. Morality is personal, so this judgement of yours is once again not a reason for the profession to be immoral, it is your own personal hang-up about it.

I was solicited by pimps and prostitutes many times before while walking on street, they just suddenly came forward to me and asked, "Do you want women? Do you want sex? It is only 100 ringgit per deal. "
It is very embaressing and insulting to me.

Perhaps the question to ask yourself is why were you embarrassed and insulted by this? Were you tempted and ashamed of your feeling of temptation? Did you envision what you would do with a prostitute and felt guilty for the things you thought about? Why is this any different to you than someone walking up and trying to sell you a watch on a street corner? Why could you not simply say, "No thank you," and keep walking without embarrassment? Perhaps it's your own morality that you question. Afterall, if you were disinterested, there would be no reason to feel embarrassment, you wouldn't feel anything about it other than turning down a sales pitch. Perhaps rather than posting this here, you should consult with a psychologist to help understand and deal with your inhibitions. It just doesn't seem healthy or natural to view sex as disgusting.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm not sure what you mean. Hopefully, you're not suggesting Clinton's Whitehouse escapades were because of Hillary. But, I agree, prostitution itself has little to do with the real problem.

That was my comment. I was talking about the marriage as a whole, not assigning individual blame. In Hillary's and Bill's case, I don't know what was going on behind closed doors with them. Clearly the choice to stray from the marriage was Bill's. However, he must have already been discontented with some aspect of the marriage to have even considered the option. When a happily married man is solicited by either a prostitute or just given attention by a woman in a bar, they are usually quick to respond with the line, "I'm happily married."

 

[humanino]

Reasons to be prostitute:
1) Laziness to work, they want to get quick money by just stretching wide their legs on bed.
2) Silliness and shamelessness to choose this contemptible profession
3) Most prostitute are drug addicts too, they need money to buy drugs, therefore they work as prostitute to earn fast money.
4) Has no moral conscience of the disgustable thing they do.

You are a horrible person. Saint, please read the other posts. Either there is a deep misunderstanding here, or you keep preaching your own pseudo-moral recklessly.

I begin to feel sympathy for you (I must admit you mad me crazy more than once). The reason is : you are obviously very sick. You need professional help. I'm serious.

 

[Prometheus]

I begin to feel sympathy for you

You are being far more generous that he.

You need professional help.

Of course he does. He is probably a born again convert. Part of his duty, now that he understands the real truth, unlike his perverted porn mongering from before, is to share the real truth with the world.

Be careful of trying to get him to see the light. What happens if he considers you the next guru, and looks to you as the the only bringer of truth to the world. We would all have to sit through him with yet another set of values to avoid eternal hell.

He needs professional help. Unfortunately for us, he is looking for it on this forum.

 

[humanino]

You are being far more generous that he.

I am Christian

 

[humanino]

Be careful of trying to get him to see the light. What happens if he considers you the next guru, and looks to you as the the only bringer of truth to the world.

:surprise: :surprise: :surprise: :surprise:
You are really scarring me here. Do you think he could find me ?

He needs professional help. Unfortunately for us, he is looking for it on this forum.

This is very true. Prometheus speaks the truth. Saint you had better choose Prometheus as a guru

 

[Entropy]

I think prostitution is immoral. If you don't see this as blindly obvious, I don't know what to say.

 

[humanino]

Entropy : I say please do not judge prostitutes.

 

[Prometheus]

This is very true. Prometheus speaks the truth. Saint you had better choose Prometheus as a guru

So, you do have a cruel streak in you after all. Saint has brought it out of you. Look at the evil that he has wrought.