Is Signals & Systems Memoryless/Linear?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of two systems in the context of signals and systems, specifically focusing on whether they are memoryless and linear. Participants analyze the definitions and implications of these properties through mathematical reasoning and examples.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that the derivative system is not memoryless because it relies on past values of the input signal.
  • Another participant agrees with the memory aspect of the derivative but argues that the second system is linear, although they struggle to prove it.
  • A different participant provides a detailed analysis of the second system's linearity, discussing the conditions under which superposition holds and the role of the unit step function.
  • Concerns are raised about the linearity of the second system when inputs are negative or when combined inputs yield a positive output, leading to potential contradictions in expected outputs.
  • One participant expresses doubt about the correctness of the solution manual's answer, suggesting that the provided solution may be flawed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the linearity of the second system, with some asserting it is linear under certain conditions while others argue it is not. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall classification of the systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight specific conditions under which the systems may or may not exhibit linearity, indicating that the analysis is dependent on the nature of the inputs and the definitions used.

sahil_time
Messages
108
Reaction score
0
1) y(t)=dx(t)/dt
Is this system memoryless?


2) y(t) = 0 if x(t)<0
x(t) + x(t-2) if x(t)>=0

Is this system linear?


Thankyou :)
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
1) The system is not memoryless. The definition of the derivative can be expressed in two ways. What it was before, and what it will be in the future, like the following:

[itex]\frac{dx}{dt}=\lim{Δt\rightarrow0}\frac{x(t)-x(t-Δt)}{Δt}[/itex]

or

[itex]\frac{dx}{dt}=\lim{Δt\rightarrow0}\frac{x(t+Δt)-x(t)}{Δt}[/itex]

The two definitions will give the same result. However, the first one is has memory (in that it uses a past value of x(t)) and the second one is non-causal (in that it uses a future value of x(t)).

If you had a system that needed to compute the derivative, the first definition is the only one you would be able to use, and that would give you a system with memory.

2) If the system is linear it must satisfy superposition and homogeneity.

Homogeneity: It's easy to see that the system is homogeneous. If an input x(t) gives y1(t) = x(t)+x(t-2) then the input αx(t) will give y2(t) = αx(t)+αx(t-2) = α(x(t)+x(t-2)) = αy1(t).

This a scaled input will produce a scaled output.

What about superposition? Well here we run into problems. Because if x1(t) < 0 and x2(t) < 0 for all t, but x1(t) + x2(t) > 0 for all t, then the response for each of the inputs will be 0, but if you add them together, they will provide an output.

Thus, the system is not linear.
 
Runei you are right about the first one. But the answer to the second one is that the system is Linear. This is how i tried to evaluate but unfortunately could not prove Linearity.

For the second question y(t)= [x(t)+x(t-2)]u[x(t)] which condenses the signal in one equation. Now we give two inputs to test superposition,

x1(t)→ y1(t)= [x1(t)+ x1(t-2)]u[x1(t)]
x2(t)→ y2(t)= [x2(t)+ x2(t-2)]u[x2(t)]

Now let x3(t) = ax1(t) + bx2(t) To test homogeniety

therefore y3(t) = [x3(t)+x3(t-2)]u[x3(t)]
= [ax1(t) + bx2(t) + ax1(t-2) + bx2(t-2)]u[ax1(t) + bx2(t)]

We have to prove that y3(t) = ay1(t) + by2(t).

I got stuck here!

Thankyou :)
 
y(t) = [x(t) + x(t-2)] u(x(t))

x1(t) → y1(t)
x2(t) → y2(t)

x3(t) = αx1(t) + βx2(t)

y3(t) = [x3(t) + x3(t-2)] u(x3(t))

= [αx1(t) + βx2(t) + αx1(t-2) + βx2(t-2)] u(x3(t))

= [αx1(t) + αx1(t-2) + βx2(t) + βx2(t-2)] u(x3(t))

= [α(x1(t) + x1(t-2)) + β(x2(t-2) + x2(t))] u(x3(t))

If we need it to be y3(t) = αy1(t) + βy2(t) we would need to somehow decompose u(x3(t)). But there is no way we can do this.

If
x1(t) ≥ 0, for all t AND
x2(t) ≥ 0, for all t

Then we can remove the unit step function. And the thing behaves like a linear system.

If
x1(t) + x2(t) ≤ 0, for all t
Then the system also behaves linearly (though the output will always be zero).

However, if

The two equations above are not satisfied, that means that for SOME t, we might have the following.

x1(t0) < 0
x2(t0) < 0
x1(t0) + x2(t0) ≥ 0

If this happens then

y1(t0) = 0;
y2(t0) = 0;

However

y3(t0) = [x3(t0) + x3(t0-2)] u(x3(t0))

= x3(t0) + x3(t0-2)

= α (x1(t0) + x1(t0-2)) + β (x2(t0) + x2(t0-2))

This equation may or may not give us 0. But we can't be sure. Thus the combined signal x1+x2 does not necesarrily provide the combined output from each of them.
 
Your solution is elegant. I think the answer in the solution manual is wrong.
Thankyou :)
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K