Is Stephen Hawking's Take on Aliens as Funny as We Hoped?

[Naty1]

For a [humorous let's hope] view from Stephen Hawking on alien life, check out:


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7107207.ece

 

[ThomasEdison]

It was silly.

The idea that Earth has some valuable resources that another civilization more advanced would want to plunder sounds ridiculous to me. Consider the fact that we've already seen extrasolar water planets (Earth isn't even a water planet it only has water covering the surface for miles: A water planet has water down to the core, hundreds of miles down). So water isn't one of them.

Okay then heavy elements? I'm sure there are other places more abundant with those too.

Diamonds? There are vast quantities of diamonds out there places far easier to get them from than Earth.

Oxygen? Look at the periodic chart it is common too.


Life? Yes we could be harvested for rare biological stuff DNA not seen elsewhere (the pharmecuticals in our bodies like in that BBC Sci-Fi movie?); but then just take samples and grow them. I would have to think how much more advanced a society is that can travel between stars and I doubt we have anything worth stealing.

Art? Human accomplishments? Doubtfull.


That isn't to say they would not be xenophobic or have some other reason to harm us. Perhaps to stop our expansion or some other paranioa: that I could see.

I can't come up with a reason for plunder though that would make such a grand feat as traveling across the stars to lug it all back seem worth it.



Personally I would hope that they would simply land and take over ; because I don't think humans should ever rule humanity but I don't rule out Aliens doing a better job than us.

 

[BenVitale]

Stephen Hawking on aliens

Stephen Hawking warns over making contact with aliens

Stephen Hawking said it was "perfectly rational" to assume intelligent life exists elsewhere.

I have no problem with this statement, but ...

But he warned that aliens might simply raid Earth for resources, then move on.

"If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans," he said.

... is it rational to assume that? Is he not projecting our impulses unto them? It is something we would do if we discovered a less technologically advanced intelligent life elsewhere.

His statement will feed on our fears and anxieties, and give more excuses to develop more weapons.

I think that Stephen Hawking is being irresponsible for making these comments.

By implying that we shouldn't do it ... well, guess what? That will certainly gives us more motivation to go ahead and do it.

Maybe that's his game plan.

Your thoughts, please.

Edit by Ivan: This post was merged into an existing thread

 

[rewebster]

It was silly.

The idea that Earth has some valuable resources that another civilization more advanced would want to plunder sounds ridiculous to me. Consider the fact that we've already seen extrasolar water planets (Earth isn't even a water planet it only has water covering the surface for miles: A water planet has water down to the core, hundreds of miles down). So water isn't one of them.

Okay then heavy elements? I'm sure there are other places more abundant with those too.

Diamonds? There are vast quantities of diamonds out there places far easier to get them from than Earth.

Oxygen? Look at the periodic chart it is common too.


Life? Yes we could be harvested for rare biological stuff DNA not seen elsewhere (the pharmecuticals in our bodies like in that BBC Sci-Fi movie?); but then just take samples and grow them. I would have to think how much more advanced a society is that can travel between stars and I doubt we have anything worth stealing.

Art? Human accomplishments? Doubtfull.


That isn't to say they would not be xenophobic or have some other reason to harm us. Perhaps to stop our expansion or some other paranioa: that I could see.

I can't come up with a reason for plunder though that would make such a grand feat as traveling across the stars to lug it all back seem worth it.



Personally I would hope that they would simply land and take over ; because I don't think humans should ever rule humanity but I don't rule out Aliens doing a better job than us.

they're here to steal YOUR ideas!

 

[MotoH]

He has lost it.

 

[imiyakawa]

Wow wtf Hawking? Exert more brain power please.

I'm pretty sure if a civilization has lived long enough to conquer spacetime in its entirety they've been long rid of all war-like mentalities, lest they destroy themselves long ago. And I'm pretty sure there's enough resources in all the billions of planets to get their metals rather than coming here.

 

[cristo]

... is it rational to assume that? Is he not projecting our impulses unto them? It is something we would do if we discovered a less technologically advanced intelligent life elsewhere.

I didn't read his quote as him assuming that, he merely warned that that might happen. And it's quite possible that the resources he was talking about were not Earth itself, but the life-forms living on the planet.

 

[pallidin]

Wow wtf Hawking? Exert more brain power please.

I'm pretty sure if a civilization has lived long enough to conquer spacetime in its entirety they've been long rid of all war-like mentalities.

Not necessarily.
Regardless of technological advancement, idealogical differences/intolerance amongst "intelligent life" can lead to aggression.

 

[radou]

All together, very pretentious, nothing else.

 

[Noja888]

I was not to impressed with the new TV specials. I hope that in this universe for a civilization to have the knowledge to travel the galaxies that they must be 'good' in nature or they would self-destruct. Self-serving, dark and evil societies always seem to die out here on earth. Let's hope this is the same in all life forms. Because in evolution - whatever works stays - regardless.

 

[ThomasEdison]

I didn't read his quote as him assuming that, he merely warned that that might happen. And it's quite possible that the resources he was talking about were not Earth itself, but the life-forms living on the planet.

That could be possible but then why not take samples then grow your own people and animals? I assume biological would mean living and living means "it can grow."

Or it could be like in that BBC show:
I think it was called Qauternaliean? It was a fun idea.
The idea was something like this.

Humans are turned into living pharmeceutical factories/farms. We are allowed to live our lives freely for the most part but now and then we are milked like cattle (through our brains?) for our biological ezymes, or fluids, or hormones, which are some byproduct of the products we consume. Since these Aliens (in the story) use biotech for everything some tailored part of our biochemistry is farmed and used to power their living spaceships.

I live in the United states (soon to be a medicalocracy) so sinister pharmecutical companies mining humans is not so outlandish.

Its a funny idea I like it.
It reminds me of the slogan "We are the veal!"

 

[Kerrie]

“If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn’t turn out very well for the Native Americans.”-from the link provided, words by Stephen Hawking.

This can be interpreted in many ways. For example, when Columbus landed, European disease wiped out score of Native Americans. The same could be true with alien life forms spreading diseases to us.

 

[pallidin]

Why is Hawking so paranoid?
We all know there are dangers associated with alien contact, but to put it in such a framework to promote "avoid contact at all costs" is extreme and somewhat bizarre.

Additionally, an advanced space-based civilization might have very few diseases and perhaps no immunity to ours. Thus, I would be more worried about our diseases causing THEM harm.

 

[partly]

It was silly.

The idea that Earth has some valuable resources that another civilization more advanced would want to plunder sounds ridiculous to me. Consider the fact that we've already seen extrasolar water planets (Earth isn't even a water planet it only has water covering the surface for miles: A water planet has water down to the core, hundreds of miles down). So water isn't one of them.

I expect they'd be looking for a good all round planet located in the Goldilocks Zone, as a new home ..or second home (for which they could claim back expenses). What's wrong, imo, is to assume that we would understand all the possible needs of an alien civilization. There could be a number of things we wouldn't consider.

What's "interesting" though, is that it's no secret that Stephen Hawking holds this opinion about trying to communicate with Aliens ..but why's he bringing it up now? And so publicly aswell.

 

[zomgwtf]

what's wrong, imo, is to assume that we would understand all the possible needs of an alien civilization. There could be a number of things we wouldn't consider.

i expect they'd be looking for a good all round planet located in the goldilocks zone, as a new home ..or second home (for which they could claim back expenses).

o rly?

 

[Topher925]

Maybe his computer-talky-thing was on the fritz and he didn't mean to say any of this. Maybe he meant to say that we should make contact with other life forms because the idea of an alien race invading/enslaving/slaughtering mankind for our most valuable resources (fig Newtons I would presume) is an incredibly inane idea.

 

[partly]

o rly?

lol.

..I wasn't really contradicting though.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Forgive me for being blunt, but I don't think anyone here is in any position to mock Hawkings. It is clear that some people find this idea to be pretty silly. Let's move on, and be respectful.

 

[MotoH]

What papers has he put out within the last 10 years? If it isn't much, then it seems like it could be an attempt at limelight again.

 

[zachzach]

Stephen Hawking = Very Smart, Very Overrated.

 

[MaxwellsDemon]

I wouldn't be worried about aliens wanting Earth for anything other than research. More than likely our planet wouldn't even be habitable for them. Its likely that aliens would have evolved in environments with different temperatures and pressures. I doubt we'd even be able to stand in the same room with an alien life form without being vaporized, crushed, frozen, or having our blood boil from low pressure or something like that. It seems unlikely that our diseases, or their diseases, would hold any danger. Their technology could be dangerous in our hands though. Even if they gave us a "beneficial" technology, it would probably be as disasterous as giving an assault rifle to a spider monkey.

 

[Topher925]

I wouldn't be worried about aliens wanting Earth for anything other than research.

What do you mean? Like they would send their grad students here to study us and then write papers about it?

 

[turbo]

Much of this this thread has been anthropocentric. That's not bad in itself, since self-preservation is not a bad thing, but let's get some perspective.

If an alien culture managed to show up here (even in the most benign way) they certainly would want to crawl over this blue ball with a fine-toothed comb. We have so many organisms, so many micro-environments, so many extreme environments (at least to our minds) that the Earth would be a treasure to them. We have deep ocean critters living on the emissions of volcanic vents at the bottom of the sea, we have arctic critters that can feast in good times and lay low in bad times and make it through season after season, and we have such a variety of life (of all kinds) living in the temperate, sub-tropical, and tropical zones, that it would take exobiologists millennia to make sense of it.

We could have micro-organisms in our soils, waters and air with characteristics and metabolic processes that could solve puzzles that they have been plaguing them for a long time. I think that the most reasonable response to expect from sentient aliens would be "do no harm, study, and do not disturb the natural order".

 

[MaxwellsDemon]

What do you mean? Like they would send their grad students here to study us and then write papers about it?

:D Pretty much yeah. I just meant that we would probably be interesting in the same way that deep sea creatures living near ocean vents or creatures under the antarctic ice sheet are interesting to us.

 

[MaxwellsDemon]

Much of this this thread has been anthropocentric. That's not bad in itself, since self-preservation is not a bad thing, but let's get some perspective.

If an alien culture managed to show up here (even in the most benign way) they certainly would want to crawl over this blue ball with a fine-toothed comb. We have so many organisms, so many micro-environments, so many extreme environments (at least to our minds) that the Earth would be a treasure to them. We have deep ocean critters living on the emissions of volcanic vents at the bottom of the sea, we have arctic critters that can feast in good times and lay low in bad times and make it through season after season, and we have such a variety of life (of all kinds) living in the temperate, sub-tropical, and tropical zones, that it would take exobiologists millennia to make sense of it.

We could have micro-organisms in our soils, waters and air with characteristics and metabolic processes that could solve puzzles that they have been plaguing them for a long time. I think that the most reasonable response to expect from sentient aliens would be "do no harm, study, and do not disturb the natural order".

I hadn't seen your post before posting...its fascinating that we came up with the same examples of ocean vents and ice sheets...perhaps great minds do think alike. :D

 

[turbo]

I hadn't seen your post before posting...its fascinating that we came up with the same examples of ocean vents and ice sheets...perhaps great minds do think alike. :D

We have a limited range of survivable environments assuming water-based life-forms, yet every single piece of our planet is occupied, even the extremes. If I was a biologist from another world, I would want to protect and explore every piece of this planet in order to extend my understanding of my own environment. Imagine having several such planets to explore and, and being able to look at the population-density of micro-organisms through macro-organisms, and in a range of environmental conditions... Heaven!

 

[MaxwellsDemon]

We have a limited range of survivable environments assuming water-based life-forms, yet every single piece of our planet is occupied, even the extremes. If I was a biologist from another world, I would want to protect and explore every piece of this planet in order to extend my understanding of my own environment. Imagine having several such planets to explore and, and being able to look at the population-density of micro-organisms through macro-organisms, and in a range of environmental conditions... Heaven!

I agree. :)

 

[fourier jr]

Stephen Hawking takes a hard line on aliens

wasn't it something like the movie Armageddon where some scientist asks whether aliens might think of us the same way we think of a bug colony? Whatever it was, what would be stopping a bunch of aliens from squashing us? Maybe we'll luck out & the concept of violence or whatever won't exist to whatever aliens who visit, & it's just a human thing:

Has Stephen Hawking been rewatching his box set of the Alien movies?

It would appear so, as his opinion of whether we should make contact with any alien life forms we discover in the future has suddenly hardened. According to a new documentary series he has made for the Discovery Channel : "If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/26/stephen-hawking-issues-warning-on-aliens

I think this movie went straight to video but it scared the bejeezus out of me anyway when i first saw it (caveat specto):

 

[zomgwtf]

Seems to me the guardian did some pretty healthy quote mining.

 

[fourier jr]

they did? i don't know anything about that show that the discovery channel made.

 

[elect_eng]

Hawking is a brilliant scientist and has all my respect, but he never would have made it as an engineer or an economist. He estimated the value of the Earth's resources but forgot to consider the shipping costs.

 

[Je m'appelle]

"If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans."

I'll have to disagree with Mr. Hawking.

Mr. Hawking clearly made an analogy on a possible contact with an advanced civilization in the nearer future with the human experience that happened on the 15th century, but is this an accurate analogy?

Well, it seems, as Human History has shown us, that most, if not all, contacts between two different civilizations end up on the most advanced and predispose taking advantage of the least predispose one.

Can this behavior be observed on a different species? Yes. Even if we take as an example an irrational species, we are likely to observe this same pattern. As this is a natural consequence between populations of certain species, if both populations come into contact, that is, start to coexist in the same environment, it is very likely that the most fit will eventually conquer the region and natural resources, as both populations can be seen as intra-species competitors.

But what if we consider a very intelligent civilization, far beyond ours? As rational beings, would they still follow this behavior or would they have a deeper understand of our position in the Universe?

This raises a lot to think, but in the way I see it, I don't think that a civilization that masters interstellar traveling would search all the Universe for intelligent life (which is way rarer than Life itself) and then simply annihilate them to take over their planet.

Mr. Hawking's position sounds very dramatic in my humble opinion.

 

[zomgwtf]

I don't think that a civilization that masters interstellar traveling would search all the Universe for intelligent life (which is way rarer than Life itself) and then simply annihilate them to take over their planet.

Although it seems that way how it's presented here I don't think this is what Hawking was alluding to exactly...

 

[cronxeh]

It seems pretty simple, to aliens we are the apes. You don't see apes walking on the streets of our cities do you? You see them in the wildnerness being hunted, and in the zoos. You don't need to study all 7+ billion of humans to get the idea, you only need like a dozen people, rest you can kill and harvest for atoms or proteins or whatever they are into. As for wildlife, after a while you also start to get the gist of things and lose interest. I agree with Hawking on this one, aliens are not going to be our friends. There won't be a free technology exchange or integration of our knowledge. They will observe, take what they want, destroy what they want, and do whatever they want. Our response is the classical unification vs common threat, a nuclear response, and a conventional gorilla warfare against a superior force. We will probably lose.

"Say Hello To My Little Friend"

 

[fourier jr]

ron graham said

It would be very discouraging if somewhere down the line you could ask a computer if the Riemann hypothesis is correct and it said, 'Yes, it is true, but you won't be able to understand the proof.'

maybe aliens would say the same thing if we asked

 

[pallidin]

My question would be this: Why does Hawking make such an extreme statement?
Instead of "balancing" that idea, he basically say's "avoid all potential alien contact"

I'm losing some respect for him...

 

[Evo]

My question would be this: Why does Hawking make such an extreme statement?
Instead of "balancing" that idea, he basically say's "avoid all potential alien contact"

I'm losing some respect for him...

Maybe he knows something we don't know? Maybe he's had contact?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Maybe he knows something we don't know? Maybe he's had contact?

Now don't make me ban you!

Seriously, highly accomplished scientists are not immune to exotic beliefs. However, I didn't think his comments suggest that he expects that we will make contact, or that we have, only that if we assume it to be possible, we should avoid it. There is nothing wrong with logic applied to an assumption, as long as one knows they are making the assumption. Perhaps he believes that exotic transportation technology may one day be possible, in which case we would have to assume this is true for some ETs out there now.

 

[turbo]

Now don't make me ban you!

Seriously, highly accomplished scientists are not immune to exotic beliefs. However, I didn't think his comments suggest that he expects that we will make contact, or that we have, only that if we assume it to be possible, we should avoid it. There is nothing wrong with logic applied to an assumption, as long as one knows they are making the assumption. Perhaps he believes that exotic transportation technology may one day be possible, in which case we would have to assume this is true for some ETs out there now.

Can you think of any prominent scientist that is more helpless, and more dependent on others? His personal situation and world-view may have some bearing on his attitude. Why would any alien races expend time, money, and resources to come here, only to expend more resources eliminating us (or enslaving us) before they had a bit of time to evaluate their options?

 

[MotoH]

What makes us think that other life forms are any more advanced than we are?

 

[Mu naught]

Can someone perhaps explain what it is exactly Stephen Hawking has done to make him so well known? Yes his condition is tragic, but if he weren't confined to a wheelchair would anyone care about him?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What makes us think that other life forms are any more advanced than we are?

We have no way to know. We can reasonably argue that there could be ETs over a billion years older than us. If there is still much to know about the absolute limits of physics and the other sciences, then a very old race could presumably be highly advanced as compared to us. For that matter, we can't know how long it takes of an advanced species to evolve. Were we lucky - a fortuitous freak of nature - or are we slow learners? Maybe we live on a dumb planet.

 

[DavidSnider]

Maybe he knows something we don't know? Maybe he's had contact?

Or maybe... we have. You have to admit, that would be an awesome disguise.

 

[elect_eng]

Can someone perhaps explain what it is exactly Stephen Hawking has done to make him so well known? Yes his condition is tragic, but if he weren't confined to a wheelchair would anyone care about him?

There are many reasons he is well-known, but his theoretical discovery of Hawking radiation comes to my mind first. This is more than sufficient to place him among the great scientist and makes him well-known among physicists. Also, his popular books allow him to be well-known among the masses.

Of course, his condition and characteristic mechanical voice make him hard to forget also, but that would hardly be sufficient in itself.

A more interesting, and harder to answer, question is whether he would have attained his notoriety and made great discoveries without his tragic condition. Clearly he always had the ability, but I can't help but speculate that perhaps his condition created a sense of urgency and focused his mind to very particular goals. I remember reading that he was a strong athlete and charismatic person in his youth. There were many paths he could have taken if he had stayed healthy.

 

[jreelawg]

I agree that intelligent alien life might be interested in studying, observing, and perhaps even keeping natural order protected. But what people are ignoring is the fact that humans are pretty much bad for the planet and it's natural treasures. It isn't a stretch to imagine them taking action to protect the natural order from humans, by eradicating us.

For what reasons should they be concerned with usany more than we are concerned with any more than we are of mosquitos or invasive plant species. Then there is also the possability they are enamoured with us, who knows.

You have to also consider we make good slaves.

 

[ABioTeacher]

“If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn’t turn out very well for the Native Americans.”-from the link provided, words by Stephen Hawking.

This can be interpreted in many ways. For example, when Columbus landed, European disease wiped out score of Native Americans. The same could be true with alien life forms spreading diseases to us.

Yeah, this is how I viewed his statement. Although, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of alien life having an aggressive or manipulative motive in dealing with the human race. What if we seemed to be more like ants to them or a disease that should be whipped out?

It isn't a stretch to imagine them taking action to protect the natural order from humans, by eradicating us.

Yep

Who knows. Maybe we'd strike first. Human paranoia and all.

Perhaps, Mr. Hawking saw Avatar one too many times.

 

[zomgwtf]

What makes us think that other life forms are any more advanced than we are?

If intelligent life visited us they would be far more advanced than we are. We haven't even had a robotic space probe travel into interstellar space yet and we struggle sending men to the Moon.

 

[MotoH]

They could be in the same boat we are, only they were stupid enough to go on a spaceship for a really long time.

 

[Mu naught]

There are many reasons he is well-known, but his theoretical discovery of Hawking radiation comes to my mind first. This is more than sufficient to place him among the great scientist and makes him well-known among physicists. Also, his popular books allow him to be well-known among the masses.

Of course, his condition and characteristic mechanical voice make him hard to forget also, but that would hardly be sufficient in itself.

A more interesting, and harder to answer, question is whether he would have attained his notoriety and made great discoveries without his tragic condition. Clearly he always had the ability, but I can't help but speculate that perhaps his condition created a sense of urgency and focused his mind to very particular goals. I remember reading that he was a strong athlete and charismatic person in his youth. There were many paths he could have taken if he had stayed healthy.

Yes that's an interesting thought. I always find it comforting knowing that if something ever happens to me and I lose my legs, or end up incapacitated in some way that I'll (hopefully) still have my mind. Sometimes I think that if I were locked up in jail with nothing to do but study books in my cell that I'd be a far better student than I am now

 

[pallidin]

Sometimes I think that if I were locked up in jail with nothing to do but study books in my cell that I'd be a far better student than I am now

This has happened with prisoners regarding artwork.