History Is Texas Reshaping American Education with Conservative Textbooks?

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The Texas School Board is proposing significant changes to history and social studies textbooks, aiming to incorporate a more conservative perspective, which critics argue promotes ideological extremism. Key changes include the exclusion of Thomas Jefferson from discussions of the nation’s intellectual origins, instead highlighting figures like St. Thomas Aquinas and John Calvin, while emphasizing the founding fathers' Christian beliefs. These revisions could influence textbooks nationwide, as Texas is a major player in the educational publishing market, potentially affecting curricula in states with different political leanings. The debate reflects broader tensions over educational content and the perceived political biases in academia. The implications of these changes raise concerns about historical accuracy and representation in American education.
  • #61
turbo-1 said:
The "Southern strategy" of the GOP played on bigotry, and captured the South from the Democrats. Southerners had been strongly pro-Democratic since Reconstruction, but revolted at the Democratic support for Civil Rights. Neo-cons have since taken over the GOP and have purged most true conservatives from their ranks, and they continue to go to the "voucher" well over and over, knowing that it plays well to parents of kids in segregation academies.

Technically, the neo-conservaive movement is completely unrelated to racial issues. It was originally comprised of Democrats with strong national defense concerns (i.e. - the "New Conservatives").

It did tend to consist mainly of Southern Democrats that also disagreed with the rest of the Democratic Party on racial issues, so I guess I could understand a belief that the national defense issues were really just a smoke screen to avoid being called racists.

I think it is a misuse of the term, though (either by the original neo-cons or by you - it's a toss up).
 
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  • #62
turbo-1 said:
Nebula, your straw-man arguments, mis-direction, and putting words in my mouth make it impossible to make a reasonable response.

You claimed in a previous post that vouchers are nothing but an excuse for "neocons" to create segregation, and you are accusing me of a strawman?

Do you know anything about the history of the Civil Rights movement? When integration was on a roll, Southern bigots hid behind their churches. They created "Christian academies" that could only be attended by the children of church members. Church members = all-white = Christian academies = all white. When I took consulting contracts in the deep south over 2 decades later, I naively thought that such segregation would have softened. I was very wrong.

The "Southern strategy" of the GOP played on bigotry, and captured the South from the Democrats.

A lot of the pro-Confederate, racist Southern Democrats transferred over to the Republican party during the 1960s and 1970s when the Democrat party began becoming much more socially-liberal. Like I said, you cannot generalize a party.

Southerners had been strongly pro-Democratic since Reconstruction, but revolted at the Democratic support for Civil Rights.

Yes.

Neo-cons have since taken over the GOP and have purged most true conservatives from their ranks, and they continue to go to the "voucher" well over and over, knowing that it plays well to parents of kids in segregation academies.

What is a "true conservative?"

Once again, the neoconservatives are completely different from the racist ultra-right that one can find in the South.

Your neoconservatives are much more your professional, East Coast, country-club, big business types. These are a whole different breed of conservative from the ones you tend to find in the South.

Not all the Southern conservatives, BTW, are the racist variety. But one complaint of conservatives in the South is how the establishment neoconservatives are embarassed to be in the same party as them.

You have standard Reagan conservatives, which you can find in the South and everywhere else, who are pro-free market, strong on national defense, limited government, socially conservative, etc...

You have the ultra-right, who are a combination of libertarian and conservative. They have racists in their ranks, hate the Fed, are pro-Confederate leaning, etc...

You have neoconservatives, whose only real uniting aspect is being very strong on national security. Otherwise, there are neoconservatives who are pro-life, some who are pro-choice. Some are for limited government, some are for big government. George W. Bush was a big government neoconservative.

Neoconservatism arose partially as a reaction to Nazi Germany in World War II and then the rise of the Soviet Union.

The GOP neo-cons shed crocodile tears for the fate of poor inner-city children and claim that their insistence on vouchers is for the sake of such poor minority children. They lie.

Says who? And how is this not a strawman argument?

They know that there is insufficient capacity and flexibility in inner-city schools to allow wholesale movements of students from failing schools to better schools, and NO mandate to pay for the transfers and transportation of such students.

No they don't. It is issues such as these which is why it is good to debate something like vouchers.

These are cold, hard truths, and unpopular. That doesn't make them less true. Never attribute altruism and purity of intent to ANY political party. You will lose every time.

This is another strawman. They are cold, hard truths only for a select group of people within the parties perhaps. It is a cold, hard truth that certain Democrats only favor big government to gain control and buy votes. But many favor it because they believe wholeheartedly in it as well.
 
  • #63
BobG said:
I think it is a misuse of the term, though (either by the original neo-cons or by you - it's a toss up).
Well, I was a pretty reliable member of the GOP until the neo-cons hijacked the party during the Reagan years and afterward. Now I'm a committed Independent. Make of it what you will. I think Ivan and I are probably closer in temperament than most members of this forum.
 
  • #64
turbo-1 said:
Well, I was a pretty reliable member of the GOP until the neo-cons hijacked the party during the Reagan years and afterward. Now I'm a committed Independent. Make of it what you will. I think Ivan and I are probably closer in temperament than most members of this forum.

Reagan went wholly against the neoconservatives in quite a few ways (most up to them were for big government) and was despised by much of the Republican establishment for his deregulation policies which destroyed the establishment Republican domination of Wall Street.
 
  • #65
turbo, I understand the point you're trying to make, but did you have to do it by indirectly naming me a racist?

I said that I support the idea of a tax credit system. You called people who support such a thing racists. What should I believe?

Also, a strategy specifically aimed at the south hasn't been tried since 1964, and not even then.

Here's a quote from Barry Goldwater on the "Southern Strategy":

"The first writer to use the term "southern strategy" was Joe Alsop, after his visit to my office back in the 1950s. At that time I was chairman of the Senate Campaign Committee and had conducted a very in-depth survey of voting trends in the U.S. for President Eisenhower. This survey showed that the only areas in the whole United States where the Republican Party had been making gains were in the Southwest. For that reason we decided to put more emphasis on that part of the nation, where rRepublicans historically had not done well.

This is the so-called "southern Strategy". It has nothing to do with busing, integration, or any other of the so-called closely held concepts of the Southerner. The South began to move into Republican ranks because of the influx of new and younger businessmen from the North who were basically Republican. And they were aided by young southern Democrats who were sick and tired of the CDemocratic stranglehold on the South and switched over to the Republican Party. Nowhere in any platform adopted by the Republican Party since can I remember there be found any thing aimed directly at the South which could be indicative of some strategy employed by the Republican Party that the Republican Party does not employ elsewhere.""
 
  • #66
Char. Limit said:
turbo, I understand the point you're trying to make, but did you have to do it by indirectly naming me a racist?
That was not my intent. If you support vouchers, but ONLY for schools that accept students of all races and faiths, I have no quarrel with that. That is NOT the GOP way, though.
 
  • #67
I have absolutely nothing against charter schools, magnet schools, and other progressive ideas for attracting bright students and keeping them engaged and challenged. Handing out blanket vouchers or tax credits to parents that can be used at ANY school is not the way to improve our educational system. It will not improve outcomes for poor kids in underserviced districts. If W wanted to leave no child behind, he could have come up with a viable plan to improve failing schools. Most children have very little choice in which school they will be educated, so the false promise of "choice" is a sham.
 
  • #68
Evo said:
This is rather disturbing, to say the least.

U.S. history textbooks could soon be flavored heavily with Texas conservatism

continued...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1253
Why is this disturbing to you? You just stated that it is, but not why. I read the article, and have some objection to the change in Jefferson emphasis, but otherwise I don't see anything contrary to historical or scientific fact. The state of the textbooks and their bias now is what disturbs me.
 
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  • #69
mheslep said:
Why is this disturbing to you? You just stated that it is, but not why. I read the article, and have some objection to the change in Jefferson emphasis, but otherwise I don't see anything contrary to historical or scientific fact. The state of the textbooks and their bias now is what disturbs me.
I object to basically every proposed change. Doesn't mean that I know or approve of the content of all current social study, history and econmic books, I can only state my opposition to these changes.

- A greater emphasis on “the conservative resurgence of the 1980s and 1990s.” This means not only increased favorable mentions of Schlafly, the founder of the antifeminist Eagle Forum, but also more discussion of the Moral Majority, the Heritage Foundation, the National Rifle Association and Newt Gingrich's Contract With America.
By "a greater emphasis" I am assuming that opposing views are downplayed or not there. I would have to see what the final text is.

Thomas Jefferson no longer included among writers influencing the nation’s intellectual origins. Jefferson, a deist who helped pioneer the legal theory of the separation of church and state, is not a model founder in the board’s judgment. Among the intellectual forerunners to be highlighted in Jefferson’s place: medieval Catholic philosopher St. Thomas Aquinas, Puritan theologian John Calvin and conservative British law scholar William Blackstone. Heavy emphasis is also to be placed on the founding fathers having been guided by strict Christian beliefs.
This is outrageous.

This is how it starts, a change here, a change there, and before long the truth is obliterated.
 
  • #70
Evo said:
This is how it starts, a change here, a change there, and before long the truth is obliterated.
It doesn't take much. When people vetting textbooks decide that Andrew Jackson's ethnic cleansing of American Indian tribes isn't worth mentioning, and decide that Colonel Custer was a hero, genocide against native Americans disappears in our curricula.

Forget Jefferson's contributions as a writer, thinker, inventor because his deist philosophy doesn't jibe well with "America was founded by Christians" and never mention the children he sired with his slave...well, Jefferson has been reduced to a cardboard cut-out. No dimensionality, no context, and none of the complexities that are needed to describe us real people. Just propaganda and agenda.

It is sad that history and social studies can be so perverted, though it is not surprising. All through my childhood, I heard about the bloodthirsty, savage nature of my native American ancestors, and never about the complex politics that shaped the various alliances and disputes that framed the conflicts of the French and Indian Wars in the northeast. It wasn't until I was in college that I had access to enough objective, accurate, history books, to be able to wrap my head around the history of my own ancestors and my own region.

Edit: None of that was taught in my HS, despite the preponderance (if not an outright majority) of kids who were descended from French-Canadian and Indian ancestors.
 
  • #71
Evo is right, all of the things conservatives want to change, according to the article, is stupid.

However, elementary school history textbooks are crappy. Native Americans are portrayed as an innocent victim of the evil white man's colonization of the Americas. Nixon was evil because of watergate. And, yes, Jefferson is overrepresented in textbooks, not in the sense that he was not an intellectual, but that he was a hypocrite.
 
  • #72
Evo said:
This is how it starts, a change here, a change there, and before long the truth is obliterated.

Give it some time, and the pendulum will swing back. The last time, it was the Left that were winning this. Now it is the Right.

In high school I was taught with the idea of the "noble savage," i.e. Native Americans good and kind-hearted versus evil imperialist white men (obviously a change from what turbo-1 was taught!), the New Deal fixed the Great Depression, Richard Nixon was evil, Jimmy Carter was awesome, etc...
 
  • #73
Nebula815 said:
Give it some time, and the pendulum will swing back. The last time, it was the Left that were winning this. Now it is the Right.

In high school I was taught with the idea of the "noble savage," i.e. Native Americans good and kind-hearted versus evil imperialist white men (obviously a change from what turbo-1 was taught!), the New Deal fixed the Great Depression, Richard Nixon was evil, Jimmy Carter was awesome, etc...

This happens when you are taught history in terms of "good and evil". History should the ultimate neutral witness. No interpretation of morals, ethics, of good and evil. Just cold facts.
 
  • #74
turbo-1 said:
A favorite refrain of the neo-cons, because they can count on getting votes from the segment of the religious right that is intent on continuing segregation. I don't want my tax money flowing to all-white "Christian academies" in the deep south while their public school systems languish and fail to educate students.

I'd just like to point out before being bated into a race debate that everything in this post relies on deep prejudices.
 
  • #75
Evo said:
I object to basically every proposed change.
To include mentioning that Great Society programs of the 60s have had "“unintended consequences”? The McCarthy changes are probably overdue to correct a wrong, I suspect conveyed by current textbooks. Though McCarthy contributed, most of the evils of that period were carried out in the House via the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee" , not in the Senate by McCarthy, a widespread mistaken belief.

Doesn't mean that I know or approve of the content of all current social study, history and econmic books, I can only state my opposition to these changes.

By "a greater emphasis" I am assuming that opposing views are downplayed or not there. I would have to see what the final text is.
I would object to removal of opposing views as well, but the article doesn't state such except for the case of Jefferson, I believe.
This is outrageous.
I agree, if the paragraph on Jefferson is verbatim accurate it is a crackpot change. I'm calling BS on the news article there.

This is how it starts, a change here, a change there, and before long the truth is obliterated.
If 'it' is textbook distortion, my take is the textbooks are already distorted and 'it' started a long time ago. This correction in Texas may be imperfect, but it overall it improves accuracy over the reviews of what I've seen.
 
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  • #76
mheslep said:
To include mentioning that Great Society programs of the 60s have had "“unintended consequences”?

What are the unintended consequences to be listed ?

mheslep said:
The McCarthy changes are probably overdue to correct a wrong, I suspect conveyed by current textbooks. Though McCarthy contributed, most of the evils of that period were carried out in the House via the ...

Ok, if he contributed, why do you need to him to make him look better ?

The guy was vocal as a hellhound in accusing politicians, government members and other persons he didn't liked of being communists or lacking patriotism. He made all the claims without having the slightest proof or even circumstantial evidences. He was also an alcoholic.
 
  • #77
waht said:
How could this even get in there:
Thomas Jefferson no longer included among writers influencing the nation’s intellectual origins. Jefferson, a deist who helped pioneer the legal theory of the separation of church and state, is not a model founder in the board’s judgment. Among the intellectual forerunners to be highlighted in Jefferson’s place: medieval Catholic philosopher St. Thomas Aquinas, Puritan theologian John Calvin and conservative British law scholar William Blackstone. Heavy emphasis is also to be placed on the founding fathers having been guided by strict Christian beliefs.

What exactly does this mean?

It doesn't say Jefferson is being deleted from American History books. In fact, it sounds like you'll no longer have excerpts from Jefferson's writings in sidebars or on pages at the end of each chapter, nor quotes from him on the title page, etc. Instead, they want to include excerpts and quotes from conservative or religious philosophers.

St Thomas Acquinas might be kind of interesting, but the interesting parts probably aren't the stuff they intend to put into the history books. John Calvin belongs in a history book, but I wouldn't be excited enough about him to be quoting him.

I think Jefferson excerpts and quotes are overdone and we could do with some writings from other founding fathers, but a lot of that is because Jefferson just put out so much more written material than the others. I wouldn't dilute the Jefferson material with choices they chose, however. They could have picked Madison, Hamilton, and Adams.

Except Adams might violate the "strict Christian beliefs" criteria, since the Unitarian religion isn't very Christian anymore. At least he wasn't one to sugar coat things in a rosy hue:

I have accepted a seat in the [Massachusetts] House of Representatives, and thereby have consented to my own ruin, to your ruin, and the ruin of our children. I give you this warning, that you may prepare your mind for your fate.

John Adams, to Abigail Adams, May 1770
 
  • #78
calculusrocks said:
I'd just like to point out before being bated into a race debate that everything in this post relies on deep prejudices.


What are the prejudices you accuse Turbo of committing ? Can you enumerate them ?
 
  • #79
DanP said:
What are the unintended consequences to be listed ?
They don't specify, but surely many are visible. I hesitate to mention, because I fear this might degenerate into "Texas is denying any credit of the Great Society..." which they article does not say; it says they're 'including' unintended consequences. Anyway, here's a couple: 1. Out of wedlock births and deadbeat dads due to the Welfare program (well documented - the rate collapsed after welfare reform in the 90s). 2. Exploding cost of entitlement programs (SS, Medicare, Medicaid).
Ok, if he contributed, why do you need to him to make him look better ?

The guy was vocal as a hellhound in accusing politicians, government members and other persons he didn't liked of being communists or lacking patriotism. He made all the claims without having the slightest proof or even circumstantial evidences. He was also an alcoholic.
I didn't say I want him to 'look better'. It is not the job of history texts to make someone 'look' anything. I want an accurate portrayal of the times. By far most of the career and lifestyle destruction came at the hands of HUAC. Because of this fact, if a textbook allocated limited space of, say, four pages to the red scare in the Eisenhower era, then I might have, say, two pages on HUAC, one on McCarthy, and not the other way around, and maybe even one on the numerous communists like Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs.

As it is now, most people have heard of McCarthy-ism. I expect it is equally fair to say that a majority have never heard of HUAC, and that warrants correction. It reflects a historical shortcoming of the education process.
 
  • #80
mheslep said:
I didn't say I want him to 'look better'. It is not the job of history texts to make someone 'look' anything. I want an accurate portrayal of the times. By far most of the career and lifestyle destruction came at the hands of HUAC. Because of this fact, if a textbook allocated limited space of, say, four pages to the red scare in the Eisenhower era, then I might have, say, two pages on HUAC, one on McCarthy, and not the other way around, and maybe even one on the numerous communists like Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs.

As it is now, most people have heard of McCarthy-ism. I expect it is equally fair to say that a majority have never heard of HUAC, and that warrants correction. It reflects a historical shortcoming of the education process.

This is fair. I do agree that history's job is to record cold events.
 
  • #81
BobG said:
What exactly does this mean?

It doesn't say Jefferson is being deleted from American History books. ...
The first sentence "Thomas Jefferson no longer included among writers influencing the nation’s intellectual origins.", if accurate, does them in. If they want to say, perhaps, that Jefferson was derivative of some more fundamental thinkers from the enlightenment period prior to him, fine, probably to the good. As I recall my grade school history it read a little bit like Jefferson et al invented everything from scratch, so that it came as a slight surprise to later see how many of them referred to Locke, Hobbes, the Pericles period in ancient Greece and the Romans. That said, it is nuts to claim Jefferson no longer gets credit for intellectual influence, given the visibility of the Declaration and much else. It is so far out from the rest of the changes that I suspect the article has it wrong.
 
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  • #82
BobG said:
I think Jefferson excerpts and quotes are overdone and we could do with some writings from other founding fathers, but a lot of that is because Jefferson just put out so much more written material than the others.
I suspect that is closer to the truth of what's going on with the Tx school board.

I wouldn't dilute the Jefferson material with choices they chose, however. They could have picked Madison, Hamilton, and Adams.
Personally I can't ever get enough of Jefferson, and I despise the preening Hamilton, genius though he was, but generally I agree with you that Jefferson could share more of a textbook page with them. That said, there's a good argument that current textbooks have a bit too much of an American bent to the intellectual ancestry, to the exclusion earlier philosophers and societies. If that's where Texas is going, I'd say it is an improvement in accuracy.
 
  • #83
turbo-1 said:
That was not my intent. If you support vouchers, but ONLY for schools that accept students of all races and faiths, I have no quarrel with that. That is NOT the GOP way, though.
Any evidence of such a hateful claim? Especially considering that you just claimed to have no problem with any GOP voucher plan, apparently without realizing it.

Can you even reference a single school that doesn't accept students of all races or faiths?
 
  • #84
mheslep said:
As it is now, most people have heard of McCarthy-ism. I expect it is equally fair to say that a majority have never heard of HUAC, and that warrants correction. It reflects a historical shortcoming of the education process.
Being from Maine, I probably was exposed more to information about HUAC and McCarthy than most US students, in large part because of Margaret Chase Smith (R, ME). It wasn't in the textbooks, but our teachers seemed to be anxious to drive home civics lessons about our Congress, and about how one person can stand up and make a difference. They had to come up with their own ways to bring the materials into the classroom.

Even by the time I got to study history in HS, Smith's rebuke of McCarthy wasn't mentioned in our texts. Luckily, our history teacher generously bought subscriptions to Time for every student in her class, and she made it a point to tie current affairs to history.
 
  • #85
mheslep said:
The first sentence: "Thomas Jefferson no longer included among writers influencing the nation’s intellectual origins."

This is somehow ironic. You would say that influential writers for intellectual origins of a nation would be members of the nation itself.

It's kinda ironic to go back in time to 13th century and claim a catholic philosopher is a influential factor for the birth of American nation. Ditto for Calvin. (Note, both deeply religious figures)

Yes, there was once a great Republic in the Mediterranean but 17 centuries later somebody in America **had** to support the Republican ideals, fight to gain political support for it, and have the vision of the Republic fighting against the British Empire ideals. He (and others) fought for it , and in their wake the great American nation was formed.

My personal opinion is that they want Jefferson minimized because he introduced something which is one of the pillars of a democracy, the separation of church from state. They want the church meddling with the sate, they move inch with inch towards a religious corruption of the public school systems.
 
  • #86
turbo-1 said:
A favorite refrain of the neo-cons, because they can count on getting votes from the segment of the religious right that is intent on continuing segregation. I don't want my tax money flowing to all-white "Christian academies" in the deep south while their public school systems languish and fail to educate students.

calculusrocks said:
I'd just like to point out before being bated into a race debate that everything in this post relies on deep prejudices.

DanP said:
What are the prejudices you accuse Turbo of committing ? Can you enumerate them ?

K.

1) What in blazes is a neocon in this context?
2) Um, "the religious right that is intent on continuing segregation"
3) Reliance on white southerners, deep south

He accuses white people of being racist/segregationist because they live in the south and happen to be white, and may go to church on Sundays. The arrogance and condescension is palpable, and makes assumptions that are skin deep.
 
  • #87
DanP said:
My personal opinion is that they want Jefferson minimized because he introduced something which is one of the pillars of a democracy, the separation of church from state. They want the church meddling with the sate, they move inch with inch towards a religious corruption of the public school systems.


You are forgetting that America is officially "One Nation Under God". Has been since 1954. All over my town, you see little placards in people's front yards reminding you of this important national fact. So, Jefferson and the secularists can suck it.
 
  • #88
techmologist said:
You are forgetting that America is officially "One Nation Under God". Has been since 1954. All over my town, you see little placards in people's front yards reminding you of this important national fact.

May very well be, but it doesn't exclude that fact that the most probable explanation from minimizing Jefferson is separation of church from state. If the church gets access to power structures in government, the democracy will be in great danger.

What city are you living in ?
 
  • #89
DanP said:
Because today's society is still deeply prejudiced. We cannot pretend that we don't see it. Some will *choose* to close their eyes and sleep pacefully, others will do everything they can to maintain the status quo, while others will fight against a prejudiced society.

Race, gender & ethnicity are still some of the biggest issues our society has to face. The situation improves slowly, but we must not become oblivious to their existence.
Absurd and hateful statements, like those of turbo, hurt the cause instead of help it. Claims like those are the biggest reason that many cases of discrimination get lost in the noise.

Ever read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?

What if millions of men in the U.S. were accused of rape every day? Would that help or hurt the cause of reducing the incidence of rape?
 
  • #90
Al68 said:
Any evidence of such a hateful claim? Especially considering that you just claimed to have no problem with any GOP voucher plan, apparently without realizing it.

Can you even reference a single school that doesn't accept students of all races or faiths?
Google on Segregation Academies. When I worked in Alabama in the 90's the Seg Academies had become affiliated with churches, which have freedom of association rights. Keep the church all-white (legal) and restrict academy acceptance to church members only (also legal) and you have a legal, segregated school. I'm not making this up, as I'm pretty sure you know. We've gone 'way OT on this (sorry, Evo).

We're never going to get the religious right to quit using our educational system to leverage their political and religious biases. The Texas history-book example is just one example, and the only reason that it hit the news is that it will impact a LOT of students.
 

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