Is the answer key wrong? Physics 12U Dynamics

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a dynamics problem involving the calculation of the minimum force required to slide a 265 kg box up a ramp inclined at 30 degrees, with a coefficient of static friction of 0.45. The original poster questions the validity of their answer compared to the answer key, which states the answer is 2100 N.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster details their calculations and expresses uncertainty regarding their steps and understanding of the problem. Some participants agree with the original poster's calculations while suggesting alternative methods. There is discussion about whether the box is being pushed or pulled, and how this affects the normal force and friction.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, providing feedback on each other's reasoning and calculations. There is a recognition of the ambiguity in the problem statement regarding the direction of the applied force. Some participants have suggested re-evaluating the approach based on the interpretation of the force direction.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted ambiguity in the problem regarding whether the force is applied by pushing or pulling the box, which influences the calculations of the normal force and friction. The original poster also highlights the need to determine if the answer key is incorrect based on their calculations.

Alameen Damer
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Homework Statement


Hello, I was doing a dynamics question, but my answer didn't match the answer key. I want to see if I am wrong, or the book is. The answer in the book is 2100 N. Question: You are helping a friend move, and you need to load a 265 kg box of books. You slide the box up a ramp, which has an incline of 30 degrees, and a coefficient of static friction of 0.45. You apply he force on the box at an angle of 39 degrees with respect to the ramp. Calculate the minimum force needed to slide the box up the ramp.

Homework Equations


Fnet=ma
Fs=(us)(Fn)
Fg=Mg

The Attempt at a Solution


Fn=(265)(9.8)cos30
=2250 N

Fs=us x Fn
=0.45 x 2250
=1012.5 <---This is the force needed to be overcome just to move the box

Also there is a force of gravity we must overcome
Fgx=(265)(9.8)(sin30)
=1298.5

This force of gravity in the x coordinate also must be overcome, so Fax must be Fgx + Fs
Fax=1012.5 + 1298.5
=2311 N

However this is the force that must be applied in the x coordinate, the force is actually being put on the box at an angle of 39 degrees so:

Fay/sin 39 = 2311/ sin51
Fay=1871.4

Fa=root (1871.4 ^2 + 2311 ^2)
= 2973.7 N

So obviously that doesn't match the answer key, can someone please see if my steps are correct, as well as my question understanding, and if so, is the answer key wrong?
 
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I get same answer as you.

Some general comments:

1) You refer to the "x coordinate" but didn't specify that you have defined that as parallel to the slope.
2) This step...
Alameen Damer said:
However this is the force that must be applied in the x coordinate, the force is actually being put on the box at an angle of 39 degrees so:
Fay/sin 39 = 2311/ sin51
Fay=1871.4
Fa=root (1871.4 ^2 + 2311 ^2)
= 2973.7 N
..seems a bit over complicated. I just wrote..
Fa * Cos(39) = 2310
and solved for Fa

3) It's not clear from the problem statement if the box is pushed or pulled up the ramp. We both assumed that it is pushed. I would expect that pulling it up would give a smaller answer (Normal force and friction is reduced) but I haven't checked if that gives you the book answer.

Edit: I've just read the problem statement again and I note that it says to calculate the "minimium force". That would strongly suggest pulling rather than pushing. Give it a go.
 
Thanks for the reply, so I redid it, using the pull I am getting a force of about 2.17 x 10^3 N. I'm assuming this is close enough to what the book wants.
 
CWatters said:
Edit: I've just read the problem statement again and I note that it says to calculate the "minimium force". That would strongly suggest pulling rather than pushing. Give it a go.
It's not really a question of pull v. push, but of whether the given angle is positive or negative with respect to the ramp angle. But I agree that in practical terms positive will tend to correlate with pulling.
 
Yes that's what I had in mind. Pulling at 39 degrees to the ramp reduces the normal force/friction where as pushing increases it.
 

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