Is the Direction of Magnetic Fields Truly Conventional?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of magnetic fields, specifically questioning the conventional direction of magnetic fields as defined from north to south. Participants explore whether this direction is arbitrary, the implications of defining it differently, and the characterization of magnetic fields as vector quantities.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the direction of the magnetic field is defined as north to south, suggesting that the south pole also attracts to north.
  • It is noted that one can adopt an opposite sign convention for the magnetic field direction, but this requires clear communication and adjustments in mathematical expressions.
  • Participants discuss the criteria for proving that the magnetic field has a direction, with suggestions including predicting effects based on the assumption of it being a vector.
  • The magnetic field exerts a force on moving charges, which is presented as evidence of its directional nature.
  • A distinction is made between vectors and pseudo-vectors, with the latter being described as behaving like vectors in three dimensions but differing under certain coordinate transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conventionality of the magnetic field direction and whether it can be considered a true vector quantity. There is no consensus on the implications of these definitions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity in definitions and conventions when discussing magnetic fields, indicating that the discussion may depend on specific contexts or frameworks.

pgirl1729
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TL;DR
Based on what theory do they mark the magnetic field from north to south?
In many books, the direction of the magnetic field is mentioned as north to south. It says they have marked it because the north pole of the compass faces to south. But why can't we say the direction is the opposite of it as the south also attracts to north? When I browsed answers, most replies were saying it was conventional. Then exactly what could be the direction of the magnetic field? Actually, is there a direction at all? Can it be call a vector quantity
 
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pgirl1729 said:
But why can't we say the direction is the opposite of it as the south also attracts to north?
You can. But then you have to remind everyone you communicate with that you're using the opposite sign convention to everyone else. And you have to work out where to put the minus signs in the maths because you've defined one vector as minus the usual definition.
pgirl1729 said:
Actually, is there a direction at all? Can it be call a vector quantity
Yes, the magnetic field is a vector field, yes it has a direction.
 
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How would you prove it has a direction? In displacement, the direction can be determined by seeing the motion.
 
pgirl1729 said:
How would one prove it has a direction?
Predict an effect based on assuming it's a vector (e.g., that electronics work) then test it (they do).
 
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The magnetic field exerts a force on a moving charge. That force obviously has a direction.
 
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Ibix said:
Predict an effect based on assuming it's a vector (e.g., that electronics work) then test it (they do).
That helped. Thank you!
 
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pgirl1729 said:
TL;DR Summary: Based on what theory do they mark the magnetic field from north to south?

Then exactly what could be the direction of the magnetic field? Actually, is there a direction at all? Can it be call a vector quantity
As @Ibix said, the direction is a matter of convention. We have written all of our formulas with the right hand rule convention such that the field vectors point out of a north pole and into a south pole. We could instead use a left hand rule and the field vectors would point out of a south pole and into a north pole.

Technically, objects that behave this way are not actually vectors. Instead they are called pseudo-vectors. In 3 dimensions they behave a lot like actual vectors, except that under certain transformations of the coordinates they get flipped.
 
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