Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Is the Hawking vs. Sussking debate still unresolved?

  1. Sep 12, 2011 #1
    I've been reading about it various places online, but I can't seem to find a straight answer.

    Is information lost when black holes disappear, or not?

    Thanks!
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 12, 2011 #2

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

  4. Sep 12, 2011 #3

    tom.stoer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    The basic idea is that there are microphysical degrees of freedom storing the information and from which quantum corrections during black hole evaporation will again restore the information (quantum corrections mean that the spectrum is not purely black body).

    The problem seems to be that these quantum corrections cannot be small.
     
  5. Sep 12, 2011 #4
    Where can I get more details about "Information is encoded in the correlations between future and past" solution?
     
  6. Sep 13, 2011 #5

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    In reference [7] cited there on the wikipedia page.
    For a simplified explanation see also
    http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/0912.1938
     
  7. Sep 13, 2011 #6
    Thank you
    OMG, Just noticed who is the author :)

    But it puzzled me even more... What is a the INFORMATION if we assume block time?
     
  8. Sep 13, 2011 #7

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Well, if that particular author is not sufficiently impressive, you may also see Ref. [6] by James Hartle. :wink:

    I'm not sure that I understand the question, so I will respond with a counter-question: What is information if we DON'T assume block time?
     
  9. Sep 13, 2011 #8
    I have to be honest, the more I think about it the less I understand what is it.
    For example, after reading the recent article http://arxiv.org/abs/1008.1066 by Max Tegmark and his (very logical) view that truly infinite universe must contain all possible states (with different frequences) I have to conclude that the total amount of information in such universe is ZERO because everything is derived from the equations.

    Answering your question, without block time, Universe is truly evolving, and can be emulated. Then the emulator calculates state at t+dt based on the state at t. The information is the information the emulator must keep to simulate the evolution correctly. This is naive, but very general definition, because it is applicable to any mathematical universe, including, for example, the "Game of Life" universe.

    However, if we assume block time, there is no 'flow' and no information to pass from the past into the future; everything is just a static solution, and time is just a direction.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  10. Sep 13, 2011 #9

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    If information does not flow from the past to the future, it does not mean that information does not exist.
     
  11. Sep 13, 2011 #10

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Exactly. And at the same time, they SHOULD be small for macroscopically large black holes.

    But the option "information is encoded in the correlations between future and past" (that Dmitry asked about) does not suffer from this problem because, for this option to work, no information needs to leak out from the black hole.
     
  12. Sep 13, 2011 #11
    ok, regarding static objects, what information is stored in a set of all primes?
     
  13. Sep 13, 2011 #12

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    For the same reason as before, I will again respond with a counter-question:
    What information is stored in the static sentence:
    "Any fool can ask a question, but only clever person can ask a good one." ?
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook




Similar Discussions: Is the Hawking vs. Sussking debate still unresolved?
  1. Hawking radiation (Replies: 3)

  2. Hawking Radiation (Replies: 4)

  3. Hawking Radiation (Replies: 46)

  4. Hawking Radiation (Replies: 5)

  5. Hawking radiation (Replies: 2)

Loading...