Is the interval the height of the triangle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of spacetime intervals in the context of Minkowski diagrams and their geometric representations. Participants explore the implications of different coordinate systems and the visualization of events in spacetime, particularly focusing on the relationships between time and space in special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the spacetime interval can be visualized as the height of a triangle formed by projections on time and space axes.
  • Others argue that Minkowski diagrams can be represented symmetrically without hyperbolic calibration curves, using the Pythagorean theorem instead.
  • A later reply questions the clarity of the initial diagrams and suggests that the photon world lines should bisect the angles in both coordinate systems.
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the representation of light pulses in their diagram, leading to a reevaluation of their claims about simultaneity.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of accurately depicting photon world lines to maintain the constancy of the speed of light across different frames.
  • There is discussion about the challenges of illustrating concepts like length contraction and the relativity of simultaneity in the diagrams presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the representation of spacetime intervals and the accuracy of their diagrams. There is no consensus on the best way to visualize the relationships between events in different frames of reference, and multiple competing interpretations remain.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of diagrammatic representations, the need for clearer calibration curves, and unresolved questions about how to effectively illustrate length contraction.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying special relativity, spacetime diagrams, and the geometric interpretations of physical concepts in physics and mathematics.

  • #31
bobc2 said:
I probably don't have anything else to contribute that would not get us into a monitor's lock down.

Well, yes, I see that we are lately running into circles in our respective comments. I understand you drop from the thread for that reason. I may post some developments in case someone else wants to comment, but in any case I thank you again for your very helpful intervention. You have told me about Loedel diagrams, which is a very interesting tool. It is curious that by adapting an Epstein diagram I had hit on the idea of this sort of diagrams, just with a different inclination, but I was not placing photon lines where they should and might have never realized this without your indication. We have agreed that at least in timelike events the interval is the height of a right triangle, so math and geometry are consistent. We have some discrepancies as to other types of events, but the discussion was fun. Thanks bobc2.
 
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  • #32
Saw said:
Well, yes, I see that we are lately running into circles in our respective comments. I understand you drop from the thread for that reason. I may post some developments in case someone else wants to comment, but in any case I thank you again for your very helpful intervention. You have told me about Loedel diagrams, which is a very interesting tool. It is curious that by adapting an Epstein diagram I had hit on the idea of this sort of diagrams, just with a different inclination, but I was not placing photon lines where they should and might have never realized this without your indication. We have agreed that at least in timelike events the interval is the height of a right triangle, so math and geometry are consistent. We have some discrepancies as to other types of events, but the discussion was fun. Thanks bobc2.

And thanks to you, Saw. You brought some goot stuff in here. My feelings about the Minkowski metric not really being a metric (true metrics are positive definite) and therefore not applicable to yielding lengths of sides of triangles in general gets out of bounds for this forum.
 
Last edited:

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