Is the speed of light a degree of freedom?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of the speed of light, its role as a postulate in physics, and the implications of defining units of measurement based on the speed of light. Participants explore whether the speed of light, along with the definitions of the meter and second, can be considered degrees of freedom that can vary across space, and the impact of such definitions on physical concepts like spacetime geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the speed of light is considered a postulate, suggesting it may be more of a definitional choice rather than a physical fact.
  • Others argue that the constancy of the speed of light is a foundational aspect of special relativity that cannot be derived from other principles.
  • There is a proposal that the definitions of the meter and second could be seen as arbitrary choices that might allow for different interpretations of distance and time.
  • Some participants assert that changing the definition of units does not alter the underlying physics or spacetime geometry, emphasizing the importance of invariant speeds.
  • A later reply discusses the historical context of the speed of light postulate and its acceptance over time, suggesting that the SI definition of the meter relies on the constancy of light speed.
  • One participant raises the idea of defining distance in a way that could allow for different geometrical interpretations, particularly in relation to sound propagation.
  • Another participant challenges the notion that redefining units equates to redefining physical concepts, arguing that units are distinct from the fundamental nature of distance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the speed of light and the definitions of measurement units are merely arbitrary choices or fundamental constants. There is no consensus on the implications of these definitions for physical theories or the nature of spacetime.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of defining physical constants and units, as well as the historical evolution of these concepts. Some arguments hinge on the interpretation of measurement systems and their impact on physical theories, which remain unresolved.

  • #31
PeterDonis said:
The fact that light travels on null curves is not dependent on the distance measure we use.
there is only one 2d-manifold in R3 such that the metric on it is exactly the L2 norm of R3 (apart from displacement) - a metric by which R3 is flat. so your metric defines the geometry of your manifold, its curvature and its geodesics.

and to quote wikipedia on manifolds:
"In 1828, Carl Friedrich Gauss proved his Theorema Egregium (remarkable theorem in Latin), establishing an important property of surfaces. Informally, the theorem says that the curvature of a surface can be determined entirely by measuring distances along paths on the surface."

so changing the metric is not just a change of coordinates. it is a change of geometry, curvature and so forth.
 
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  • #32
Killtech said:
changing the metric is not just a change of coordinates. it is a change of geometry, curvature and so forth.

The term "metric" means "the geometry of the manifold" (spacetime in this case), so your statement is a tautology: changing the geometry is changing the geometry.

The term "distance measure" as you have been using it means our choice of units, which can be changed without changing the geometry. Gauss was not saying that French people measuring in kilometers would get a different geometry for the surface of the Earth than British people measuring in miles.
 
  • #33
Killtech said:
when EM force is changed such that c is increased by a factor and the effect of charge is reduced by square root alpha remains unable to detect that change?

I have no idea what you are talking about. There is a large body of literature describing various experiments attempting to detect changes in the fine structure constant. Look it up.
 

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