Is there a link between poultry consumption and longevity?

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Research indicates that vegetarians may live longer than meat-eaters, with a very low meat intake linked to reduced mortality risk in several studies. Pescatarians reportedly have similar longevity to vegetarians, while vegans may have shorter lifespans than vegetarians. The discussion raises questions about the health impacts of poultry consumption, particularly chicken, and its role in longevity. Factors such as genetics, ethnicity, and overall diet quality complicate the relationship between poultry consumption and health outcomes. Ultimately, a balanced diet, including moderation in meat and poultry intake, is emphasized for promoting longevity.
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TL;DR Summary
How long do people who eat poultry live?
There is some evidence that the vegetarians live longer that people who eat meat:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916522033524

1) a very low meat intake was associated with a significant decrease in risk of death in 4 studies, a nonsignificant decrease in risk of death in the fifth study, and virtually no association in the sixth study; 2) 2 of the studies in which a low meat intake significantly decreased mortality risk also indicated that a longer duration (≥ 2 decades) of adherence to this diet contributed to a significant decrease in mortality risk and a significant 3.6-y (95% CI: 1.4, 5.8 y) increase in life expectancy;

In one book I have also read that people who eat fish (pescatarians) live as long as the vegetarians. Also, there was the information that vegans live shorter than the vegetarians.
So, the fish is a good food, however it is sometimes tasty and sometimes not so good, while the chicken is always tasty. So I have a question: have there been performed any research relating the health and longevity of poultry-eaters?
 
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Spathi said:
TL;DR Summary: How long do people who eat poultry live?

There is some evidence that the vegetarians live longer that people who eat meat:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916522033524



In one book I have also read that people who eat fish (pescatarians) live as long as the vegetarians. Also, there was the information that vegans live shorter than the vegetarians.
So, the fish is a good food, however it is sometimes tasty and sometimes not so good, while the chicken is always tasty. So I have a question: have there been performed any research relating the health and longevity of poultry-eaters?
It is difficult to ring fence something like that in my opinion.



You have genetics in the mix, ethnicity and all the other environmental factors besides diet that contribute to your health.



Your GP will usually recommend a balanced diet, less processed food/fast food, low salt and sugar (look at the contents), fresh fruit and veg, no smoking if possible, alcohol within guidelines and exercise.



Some red meat links below to colorectal cancer, heart disease and Hypertension below.



https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-07-2...creased-risk-heart-disease-oxford-study-shows



https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/.../red-meat-colorectal-cancer-genetic-signature



https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10060708/



Chicken specifically?



Chicken (breast is best) is high in protein (tastes great) but is not as low as Turkey in terms of fat and avoid the skin (where much of the fat is) if you are watching your fat content.



Tuna white fish low in fat, oily fish has some “good fats” like Omega 3 – Literally tonnes of information on this.



I like double cheese burgers, at my age right now however? Once per month perhaps.



Some tips here.



https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-to-eat-a-balanced-diet/eight-tips-for-healthy-eating/
 
pinball1970 said:
Chicken (breast is best) is high in protein (tastes great) but is not as low as Turkey in terms of fat and avoid the skin (where much of the fat is) if you are watching your fat content.

I have already heard that breast is better, and it's a pity - for me the legs are more tasty. Do you agree?
And you want to say that the fat is something bad? I have heard that it's vice versa, one should eat the fat instead of carbohydrates if he does not want to become obese.
 
Spathi said:
I have already heard that breast is better, and it's a pity - for me the legs are more tasty. Do you agree?
And you want to say that the fat is something bad? I have heard that it's vice versa, one should eat the fat instead of carbohydrates if he does not want to become obese.
It is a balance. Lots of fat and carbohydrate is not good in a diet. Did you check the HNS link?
 
Spathi said:
I have already heard that breast is better, and it's a pity - for me the legs are more tasty. Do you agree?
And you want to say that the fat is something bad? I have heard that it's vice versa, one should eat the fat instead of carbohydrates if he does not want to become obese.
We need fat in our diet but there are different types. Look into HDL and LDL fat
 
Spathi said:
for me the legs are more tasty. Do you agree?
Yes I like chicken leg, breast tends to be drier, less fat.
 
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pinball1970 said:
It is a balance. Lots of fat and carbohydrate is not good in a diet. Did you check the HNS link?
I have look at the headings, most of them are ok, but the author also recommend to eat less saturated fat; are eggs the product with it?
As far as I know, in the past the medics recommended to eat less eags since they contain cholesterol, but now it is revealed that this is not true?
 
pinball1970 said:
Tuna white fish low in fat, oily fish has some “good fats” like Omega 3 – Literally tonnes of information on this.
One thing that you must watch is eating too much top of the food chain fish like bigeye tuna, swordfish or orange roughy because of a high mercury content. Their consumption should be limited to once per month. Other fish with less mercury that can be heated more regularly (once a week) like blue fish, halibut, and Mahi-Mahi. Other fish low in mercury include trout, flounder and haddock may be eaten two to three times a week.

Some tuna are relatively safe to eat regularly but there are many types of varying levels of mercury. Light canned tuna is the lowest. See
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/mercury-in-tuna
for more details.
For Ahi lovers note that the term Ahi is used for both bigeye tuna and yellowfin tuna, but bigeye has twice the mercury content of yellowfin,
 
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gleem said:
One thing that you must watch is eating too much top of the food chain fish like bigeye tuna, swordfish or orange roughy because of a high mercury content. Their consumption should be limited to once per month. Other fish with less mercury that can be heated more regularly (once a week) like blue fish, halibut, and Mahi-Mahi. Other fish low in mercury include trout, flounder and haddock may be eaten two to three times a week.

Some tuna are relatively safe to eat regularly but there are many types of varying levels of mercury. Light canned tuna is the lowest. See
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/mercury-in-tuna
for more details.
For Ahi lovers note that the term Ahi is used for both bigeye tuna and yellowfin tuna, but bigeye has twice the mercury content of yellowfin,
There is a list from most contaminated to least here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_in_fish
 
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Spathi said:
eags since they contain cholesterol, but now it is revealed that this is not true
We need cholesterol for normal metabolism. Again this is about balance, you can check government guidelines for how much you need/is too much.

If you are training, egg whites are a good source of protein without fat/Cholesterol

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/egg-whites-nutrition
 
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  • #11
A revealing anecdote concerning chicken:

My late wife was raised on a farm in southern Thailand, the original birth place of common agricultural chicken when the land featured massive tracts of forest. Her chickens ran mostly free eating a variety of bugs, small reptiles, seeds and feed left out by farmers. The colorful birds appeared smaller than typical American stock but strong and well proportioned.

When my relatives learned that I could cook, I was assigned a prized roll of prepping and chopping freshly harvested chicken meat for a variety of dishes such as larb ghy, spicy ground chicken with fresh mint and basil served with sweet rice. Breast meat had a yellow-gold hue, low water and fat content, and tasted ambrosial. The lower quarters and internal organs, traditionally barbequed, tasted fragrant with a mouth feel difficult to replicate off the farm.
 
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  • #12
Klystron said:
Her chickens ran mostly free eating a variety of bugs, small reptiles, seeds and feed left out by farmers
Free range vs the other kind.
Chickens are not particular from where they get their nutrition.
Free range also need to consume small stones to crush up the food intake in the gizzard.

I kind of doubt there is any info on the longevity and health versus exercize and diet of chickens, since most do not live to full potential in terms of life expectancy.
 
  • #13
pinball1970 said:
There is a list from most contaminated to least here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_in_fish
Another wise choice one can make is to eat prey, rather than predator.
By prey, I mean fish that spawn thousands or millions of offspring*. Sharks, for example, birth only one at time.

In the food chain, prey outnumber predators by hundreds or thousands. So eating predators can tip the food chain out of balance much more rapidly than can eating prey.

* a terrible yardstick, granted. Swordfish are predators but can lay millions of eggs.
 
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  • #14
I hope the discussion will return to the topic of op. In the cited article of Singh, I found an information I didn't know before:

and 3) the protective effect of a very low meat intake seems to attenuate after the ninth decade.

This statistics seem strange for me, Previously, people became vegetarians because of the moral or religion ascept, they didn't want to "kill anymals". In last 3 decades, some statistics had been collected that the vegetarians live longer, and more and more people started becoming vegetarians to be heathy. So, in our time, when you see a vegetarian, it is very probable that he also does not smoke, does not dring alcohol, etc. So the trend now must be even more evident than before, but in reality it is vice versa. Why?
 
  • #15
Spathi,
The following article may be relevant:
https://www.economist.com/graphic-d...ave-gained-longevity-by-balancing-their-diets

"Studies have also tied eating lots of processed red meat to a greater risk of stroke. But too little may be unwise as well, because they provide cholesterol that may be needed for blood-vessel walls. In a study of 48,000 Britons, vegetarians were unusually resistant to heart disease, but prone to strokes."

"One paper from the 1990s found that the parts of Japan where diets had changed most also had the biggest drops in cerebrovascular mortality. Another study, which tracked 80,000 Japanese people in 1995-2009, showed that strokes were most common among those who ate the least chops and cream. Although Japan’s decline in cerebrovascular deaths could stem entirely from other causes, these data suggest that nutritional shifts may have helped."
 
  • #16
pinball1970 said:
We need cholesterol for normal metabolism. Again this is about balance, you can check government guidelines for how much you need/is too much.

If you are training, egg whites are a good source of protein without fat/Cholesterol

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/egg-whites-nutrition

You don't need any cholesterol in your diet. Zero. Your body is capable of producing all that is necessary (from a small amount of essential fatty acids).

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scri...ts/InteractiveNFL_Cholesterol_October2021.pdf
 
  • #17
How long do people who eat poultry live?
On the frontlines in Ukraine? Maybe a month.

There are so many variables that any study that says X diet is better for you should be taken with a big ole grain of salt. As much as you might want to adjust for these variables like smoking, exercise time, or economic status the data you're using is largely self-reported, aka garbage. Control what you can control and don't worry about what you can't: eat a well balanced diet, get physical activity and avoid wars if possible to live as long as possible. At that point, you'll die when you die.

If you must have data on this here is a study from the UK. Fig 1. has hazard ratios associated with various intakes of different categories of foods. Chicken is listed under the umbrella term, "Meat, white".

https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00868-w
 
  • #18
The recommended diet seems to be the Mediterranean Diet, mostly salad, fruits and vegetables, fish, a lot of extra virgin olive oil and very little red meat. Current advice is to avoid super processed foods - those with a long list of unrecognisable ingredients. And of course, foods containing pesticides and sugar are bad for you. Be very careful about the bread you eat.
 
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  • #19
Spathi said:
TL;DR Summary: How long do people who eat poultry live?

There is some evidence that the vegetarians live longer that people who eat meat:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916522033524



In one book I have also read that people who eat fish (pescatarians) live as long as the vegetarians. Also, there was the information that vegans live shorter than the vegetarians.
So, the fish is a good food, however it is sometimes tasty and sometimes not so good, while the chicken is always tasty. So I have a question: have there been performed any research relating the health and longevity of poultry-eaters?
Relative to whom? If you look at international comparisons, there are a lot of confounds.
 
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  • #20
Fish and poultry seem to be good sources of protein but red meat is advised to be kept to a very small amount. An important requirement is to eat mainly plants, as they maintain the gut biome - critical to functioning of the body and its immune system. The many videos by Professor Tim Spector may be of interest.
 
  • #21
Edit; Well, don't know how useful this is as a data point, but the average life expectancy at birth in omnivore countries as a whole is significantly higher than that of those that are mostly vegetarian. The moral argument is mostly subjective. Of course, many of these omnivore countries are wealthy Western countries, vs poorer vegetarian countries.
 
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  • #22
256bits said:
Free range vs the other kind.
Well, free range chickens are supposedly more healthy to eat, but it can be tough catching them

1738123962512.png
 
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  • #23
Virtually all the evidence around diet and health is drawn from the huge body of Observational studies known as epidemiology. Unfortunately by their nature observational studies are considered to be unreliable, they are wide open to biases, confounding variables, data manipulation and financial conflicts of interest. These studies tend to rely on self-reported data, often from memory and over significant periods of time, making it practically impossible to verify. Really, observational studies are best used to provide hypothetical links that can then be verified by randomised controlled trials, but truly randomised control trials in nutrition is virtually impossible.

One of the most significant study using these methods was conducted by Bradford Hill and Richard Doll in 1950, which identified the association between smoking and lung cancer, an association so strong that it was almost immediately accepted as causal. However, they themselves recognised the very real problems involved in these sorts of studies and left a set of guidelines which can help in evaluating such research. Normally called the Bradford Hill criteria, they remain very useful in making judgements about the validity of the findings.

Perhaps the most important application of such research has been in the widespread adoption of the Mediterranean diet. It was noticed that the inhabitants of a number of Mediterranean islands seemed to have significantly longer lifespans than those in other areas. A number of American researchers then set about creating a diet, in line with their own beliefs about healthy diets, claiming this as the reason for their longevity. It's suggested that this diet wasn't really are flection of what the islanders eat, and it's thought few of the islanders had an accurate measure of their ages. Despite this, and the fact that there are other countries with longer average lifespans, including Finland, Switzerland, Australia and Japan, all with very different diets, the Mediterranean diet continues to be promoted for a wide range of health problems. It was this and the follow-on studies that promoted the advantages of plant based foods, Olive oil, and nuts while advised against red meat and animal fats. It continues to be widely promoted despite the continues inconsistency in findings, weak statistical correlations, some financial irregularities and poor theoretical rationals in explaining its effects.

How fragile are Mediterranean diet interventions? A research-on-research study of randomised controlled trials. https://nutrition.bmj.com/content/4/1/115

Unfortunately the same issues plague the findings of the studies that attempt to compare different diets, if there is an effect its a small one. Its interesting that the Vegan diet was the product of a prophetess in the seventh day Adventist, as a way to reduce the sex drive.​


A2011 analysis of 52 claims made by nutritional epidemiology tested in 12 well controlled trials found that not one of the 52 claims—0%–could be confirmed.

https://rss.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1740-9713.2011.00506.x

Working through a lot of the recommendations using the Bradford Hill criteria is interesting and simply shows that the state of research in diet and health is a mess really. One novel finding is even the studies that claim benefits in some health conditions, this rarely seems to affect lifespan.

Most of the work on longevity seems to be working on the principle that we may already have reached an upper limit and that any improvement will need to focus on the process of ageing specifically.

https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/life-expectancy-may-be-reaching-upper-limits-for-now/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-024-00702-3#Sec6
 
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  • #24
I think the emphasis at the moment is on maximising healthy life and avoiding the diseases of old age rather than lifespan per se.
 
  • #25
tech99 said:
I think the emphasis at the moment is on maximising healthy life and avoiding the diseases of old age rather than lifespan per se.
Concur except that along with 'avoiding ... diseases' such as wearing masks in public and hand washing, current health guidlines emphasize diet (the subject of this thread) and exercise. These two concepts intertwine to preserve health in old age.

Literary and media concepts such as 'Mediterranean diet' and 'Baby boom' serve as mnemonics, convenient catch-alls, that provide guidance and intended target audience for said guidance.

Take olives for instance. Although many cultivars may have originated in the Mediterranean, local stores (Southwest USA) provide olives from California and olive oil from a variety of countries with proper climate to grow tasty olives.
 
  • #26
Laroxe said:
Virtually all the evidence around diet and health is drawn from the huge body of Observational studies known as epidemiology. Unfortunately by their nature observational studies are considered to be unreliable, they are wide open to biases, confounding variables, data manipulation and financial conflicts of interest. These studies tend to rely on self-reported data, often from memory and over significant periods of time, making it practically impossible to verify. Really, observational studies are best used to provide hypothetical links that can then be verified by randomised controlled trials, but truly randomised control trials in nutrition is virtually impossible.

One of the most significant study using these methods was conducted by Bradford Hill and Richard Doll in 1950, which identified the association between smoking and lung cancer, an association so strong that it was almost immediately accepted as causal. However, they themselves recognised the very real problems involved in these sorts of studies and left a set of guidelines which can help in evaluating such research. Normally called the Bradford Hill criteria, they remain very useful in making judgements about the validity of the findings.

Perhaps the most important application of such research has been in the widespread adoption of the Mediterranean diet. It was noticed that the inhabitants of a number of Mediterranean islands seemed to have significantly longer lifespans than those in other areas. A number of American researchers then set about creating a diet, in line with their own beliefs about healthy diets, claiming this as the reason for their longevity. It's suggested that this diet wasn't really are flection of what the islanders eat, and it's thought few of the islanders had an accurate measure of their ages. Despite this, and the fact that there are other countries with longer average lifespans, including Finland, Switzerland, Australia and Japan, all with very different diets, the Mediterranean diet continues to be promoted for a wide range of health problems. It was this and the follow-on studies that promoted the advantages of plant based foods, Olive oil, and nuts while advised against red meat and animal fats. It continues to be widely promoted despite the continues inconsistency in findings, weak statistical correlations, some financial irregularities and poor theoretical rationals in explaining its effects.

How fragile are Mediterranean diet interventions? A research-on-research study of randomised controlled trials. https://nutrition.bmj.com/content/4/1/115

Unfortunately the same issues plague the findings of the studies that attempt to compare different diets, if there is an effect its a small one. Its interesting that the Vegan diet was the product of a prophetess in the seventh day Adventist, as a way to reduce the sex drive.​


A2011 analysis of 52 claims made by nutritional epidemiology tested in 12 well controlled trials found that not one of the 52 claims—0%–could be confirmed.

https://rss.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1740-9713.2011.00506.x

Working through a lot of the recommendations using the Bradford Hill criteria is interesting and simply shows that the state of research in diet and health is a mess really. One novel finding is even the studies that claim benefits in some health conditions, this rarely seems to affect lifespan.

Most of the work on longevity seems to be working on the principle that we may already have reached an upper limit and that any improvement will need to focus on the process of ageing specifically.

https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/life-expectancy-may-be-reaching-upper-limits-for-now/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-024-00702-3#Sec6
One of the problems with the main study validating the Mediterranean diet is that it involved Mediterranean people eating a Mediterranean diet that their ancestors had been eating for centuries, if not for thousands of years.

It is not only likely, but probable, that the Mediterranean people have experienced selective genetic adaptations in that time frame to make them particularly suited to the Mediterranean diet (or conversely that the diet has been adapted over time to their very specific genetic profile).

It doesn't necessarily follow that people from Finland or Japan or Nigeria whose ancestors ate very different foods for the past many centuries are best suited to the same diet. Maybe Finns do better with the traditional Finnish diet, Japanese people do better with the traditional Japanese diet, and people from a particular part of Nigeria do better with the traditional diet of their ancestors. It could be that the Mediterranean diet is better for everyone, but the evidence being relied upon to show that doesn't establish that fact.

We certain know of cases where one place's traditional diet is ill suited to people from somewhere else.

For example, lots of people globally, including a particularly large share of East Asians, are lactose intolerant. But, the traditional diets of Northern Europe have lots of milk.

The Mediterranean diet has lots of olive oil, something that was not part of the ancestral diet in Northern Europe, the Pre-Columbian Americas, Australasia, Oceania, much of Asia, and much of Africa. I wouldn't be at all surprised if olive oil did not have the beneficial effects it does for Mediterranean people in some populations from some of the regions where olive oil was not part of the ancestral diet.

As another example, food in tropical and subtropical areas tend to be more spicy, while food in temperate and colder areas tend to be more bland. And, it would hardly be surprising if spicy foods had different health consequences for people with ancestors from tropical and subtropical areas compared to the health consequences for people with ancestors from the "bland zone". The leading hypothesis for this ecological zone variation is that spicy foods are anti-microbial. So, they might interact in a genes x environment manner with genetic HLA immune system responses which are some of the most active sites of genetic adaptation during the Holocene era in modern humans and which are often highly population specific, based upon the pathogens that different populations' ancestors encountered.

Yes, it's all speculation, but it is plausible speculation and it ought to be rigorously tested in many populations before it is recommended for everyone, the way that the Mediterranean diet is.

Also, actual genes from people's own DNA aren't the only possible way that regional affinities and dis-affinities for diets could arise. Regional or population specific variations in gut bacteria is another. So are immune system response to common non-deadly pathogens in a region that most people in that region encounter as children and develop an immunity to, which is why, for example, tourists visiting Mexico for the first time often get "Montezuma's revenge", while locals are unaffected.

Simple culturally learned preferences for certain foods also matter. Diets only work if you can keep following them consistently over time. This is easier if you are eating comfort foods that you've had and made for yourself routinely for your entire life and is harder if you've never made these foods, they aren't familiar to you, you don't even know how they are supposed to taste when made properly, and you may not have access to precisely the same ingredients.

As an example of that, Southern biscuits which are easy to make and ubiquitous in the American South, are notoriously difficult to make elsewhere, because the flour used to make them in the South comes from a different subtype of wheat grain than the baking flour available in grocery stores almost everywhere else, even though the labels on the flour in the South and elsewhere respectively, don't indicate anywhere that they are made from different kinds of wheat. The labels just say that one of the ingredients is "wheat" without further specification. Now, this isn't to say that Southern biscuits, in particular, are more healthy. Indeed, the opposite might be true. But the lesson that subtle differences in the kinds of ingredients that are only available locally in one region (which are invisible to all but the most sophisticated consumers) might impact how well recipes from that region work when you are cooking them, has broad applicability.
 
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  • #27
Is there a link between poultry consumption and longevity? For the poultry, yes.
 
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  • #29
The US reached no. 20 in 1982 but has fallen below that since. About 40% of US males are obese. Even the best healthcare system may not work without the cooperation of the patient.

Utra processessed for is probably the cause since the aim of processing it is to make it taste good. I read a study the found persons who are allowed to eat as much ultra-processed food as they want to consume about 500 more calories a day. compared to those who do not.
 
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