Is There a Non-Calculus Method to Prove this Thermodynamic Inequality?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the thermodynamic inequality $$ \frac{y^x-1}{xy^{x-1}(y-1)}<1$$ for real numbers x and y, specifically under the conditions that x > 1 and y > 1. Participants explore whether this can be accomplished without using calculus, suggesting alternative methods or inequalities that might apply.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant successfully proved the inequality using calculus but seeks a non-calculus approach, suggesting the use of inequality theorems.
  • Another participant proposes manipulating the inequality by subtracting 1 and finding a common denominator, indicating that either the numerator or denominator must be negative.
  • A subsequent reply expresses uncertainty about how the numerator can be negative, specifically questioning the expression $$y^x-1-xy^x+xy^{x-1}<0$$.
  • Another participant suggests experimenting with specific values of x and y to identify patterns and conditions under which the inequality holds, recommending graphical analysis of the left-hand side and right-hand side.
  • There is a mention of geometric interpretation, where the left-hand side and right-hand side represent surfaces in 3D space, with their intersection being of interest.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a non-calculus method to prove the inequality. There are multiple approaches suggested, but uncertainty remains regarding the manipulation of the inequality and the conditions required for it to hold.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding of the numerator's behavior and the conditions under which the inequality might be satisfied. The discussion does not resolve these uncertainties.

emroz92
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Prove that
$$ \frac{y^x-1}{xy^{x-1}(y-1)}<1$$
where [itex]x,y \in ℝ, x>1[/itex] and [itex]y>1.[/itex]

I was able to prove it using calculus, but am wondering if there was another way of doing so, like exploiting some inequality-theorems which involves real numbers. I'll be glad if anyone can show me a way and quench my hunch.

Cheers.
 
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$$ \frac{y^x-1}{xy^{x-1}(y-1)}<1$$
where [itex]x,y \in ℝ, x>1[/itex] and [itex]y>1.[/itex]

hmmm, not a fancy theorem but ... did you try - subtract 1 from both sides and put the LHS over a common denominator:

which means that either the numerator or the denominator is negative.

notice that the denominator is a product of only positive numbers?
see where this is going?
 
Thanks. But I am afraid I still can't see how the numerator is negative; that is:
$$y^x-1-xy^x+xy^{x-1}<0$$.
I was stuck with this expression before you pointed out. I think this part is the difficult one.
 
It is sometimes easier to see when something is negative ... you may have to experiment a bit to find a pattern... i.e. if x=1, what values of y will make the relation = 0, what values >0 and what values <0?

Alternatively:
$$\Rightarrow y^x-1 < xy^{x-1}(y-1)$$
... what conditions have to be satisfied for that to be true?
You should be able to see how it will be true just by graphing the LHS and the RHS.
Try figuring what y and x could be - like what happens is x>1 and 0<y<1 ?

geometrically, the LHS and RHS describe surfaces in 3D - LHS=RHS will be the intersection of these two surfaces.
 

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