Is there life in the universe, and if so has it visited Earth?

[baywax]

It's a bit of a jump, wouldn't you say, from merely
...maneuvering faster than 21st century human technology...
to
... spitting in the face of fundamental laws of the universe ...?

For sure. My mistake. I'm not an MD or an astrophysicist but I know spitting is unsanitary and highly offensive. I'd never, in a million light years, spit on what you or anyone considered to be fundamental laws of any kind.

How can we explain objects "flying" at 1900 mph over Crawford, TX. And if we decide that they are extraterrestrial objects, how do we explain how they got to earth?

 

[gareth]

For sure. My mistake. I'm not an MD or an astrophysicist but I know spitting is unsanitary and highly offensive. I'd never, in a million light years, spit on what you or anyone considered to be fundamental laws of any kind.

How can we explain objects "flying" at 1900 mph over Crawford, TX. And if we decide that they are extraterrestrial objects, how do we explain how they got to earth?

I agree, there must be some mild spitting involved.

 

[CEL]

How can we explain objects "flying" at 1900 mph over Crawford, TX. And if we decide that they are extraterrestrial objects, how do we explain how they got to earth?

Any massive object moving in the atmosphere at such speed would cause an enormous sonic boom.
The fact that no such sound has been observed suggests that the "flying" object was massless. Probably an electromagnetic phenomenon.

 

[gareth]

Any massive object moving in the atmosphere at such speed would cause an enormous sonic boom.
The fact that no such sound has been observed suggests that the "flying" object was massless. Probably an electromagnetic phenomenon.

That's assuming the object is propelled by a known propulsion system.

 

[CEL]

That's assuming the object is propelled by a known propulsion system.

No, the sonic boom is caused by the movement of the object through the air. Even without propulsion an object moving that fast would cause the boom.

 

[gareth]

No, the sonic boom is caused by the movement of the object through the air. Even without propulsion an object moving that fast would cause the boom.

Ah yes, I did say known propulsion system.

The object is unidentified, therefore its mechanism for moving in space is unidentified.

Any attempt to guess this mechanism is purely speculative (quiet jet engine, warp drive, wormholes, extra dimensional travel...the list goes on).

You claim that the phenomena might be caused by electromagnetic effects, but I find this hard to visualise.

Shiny metallic discs darting around at Mach 3, showing up on radar and reported by several wintesses, that would be a pretty neat light trick.

 

[CEL]

Ah yes, I did say known propulsion system.

The object is unidentified, therefore its mechanism for moving in space is unidentified.

Any attempt to guess this mechanism is purely speculative (quiet jet engine, warp drive, wormholes, extra dimensional travel...the list goes on).

No matter what the propulsion system is. Any object moving through the air at Mach 3 will produce a sonic boom.

You claim that the phenomena might be caused by electromagnetic effects, but I find this hard to visualise.

Shiny metallic discs darting around at Mach 3, showing up on radar and reported by several wintesses, that would be a pretty neat light trick.

Electromagnetic phenomena can show on radar screens, since radar uses EM waves in detection and ranging (this is the meaning of the device: RAdio Detection And Ranging).
Visual witnesses are not reliable. Of course, if there are witnesses there should be made an investigation, but witnessing alone is not accepted in science and is accepted in a court only as additional evidence. If the police does a lousy job, no amount of witnessing will be accepted in court.

 

[gareth]

No matter what the propulsion system is. Any object moving through the air at Mach 3 will produce a sonic boom.

Again,

you are assuming the object is actually moving through the air and no other possiblity.

There might be some crazy physics going on which I am not going to speculate about (but I did mention briefly in my previous post).

I think military pilots reports are fairly reliable, but that's just my opinion.

 

[CEL]

Again,

you are assuming the object is actually moving through the air and no other possiblity.

There might be some crazy physics going on which I am not going to speculate about (but I did mention briefly in my previous post).

I don't believe in ghosts. If there was some crazy physics by which an object could move through the air without affecting it, it would be easier to make it invisible to radar.
With the well behaved physics we know it is possible to build stealth planes that are almost invisible to radar.

 

[gareth]

I don't believe in ghosts. If there was some crazy physics by which an object could move through the air without affecting it, it would be easier to make it invisible to radar.
With the well behaved physics we know it is possible to build stealth planes that are almost invisible to radar.

Define ghosts.

Who is trying to make it invisible to radar? There are a lot of UFO reports that show that these things aren't shy, and in some cases seem to go out of their way to be seen.

I guess all I'm saying is we don't know what they are, and for us to assume to know all the science behind the phenomena is just plain wrong.

Whether it being little green men, a modern artifact of the human mind, us from the future, us from the past, military toys, swamp gas, weather baloons, ball lightning or otherwise, we, the public, do not know what it is and should just keep an open mind about the science involved.

 

[CEL]

Define ghosts.

Who is trying to make it invisible to radar? There are a lot of UFO reports that show that these things aren't shy, and in some cases seem to go out of their way to be seen.

I guess all I'm saying is we don't know what they are, and for us to assume to know all the science behind the phenomena is just plain wrong.

Whether it being little green men, a modern artifact of the human mind, us from the future, us from the past, military toys, swamp gas, weather baloons, ball lightning or otherwise, we, the public, do not know what it is and should just keep an open mind about the science involved.

I agree that we must have an open mind, but not so open that our brains fall from the openings.

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't believe in ghosts. If there was some crazy physics by which an object could move through the air without affecting it, it would be easier to make it invisible to radar.
With the well behaved physics we know it is possible to build stealth planes that are almost invisible to radar.

You draw hasty conclusions. I can easily postulate objects moving through air at multi-Mach speeds without making a somic boom.

An optical effect could do that.

I'm not suggesting that is the answer, I'm just suggesting you unnecessarily rule out possibilities.

 

[gareth]

I agree that we must have an open mind, but not so open that our brains fall from the openings.

Lets say you went back in time, told someone from the 1500's that in the future we could fly through air faster than sound could travel, communicate with people in another land using invisible rays, light heat and power every home with the motion of particles we can't even see and play a round of golf on the moon.

Try telling them to have an open mind.

Some things just plain don't know yet.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

How can we explain objects "flying" at 1900 mph over Crawford, TX. And if we decide that they are extraterrestrial objects, how do we explain how they got to earth?

If we can offer a reasonable explanation for an event, we do, and if we can't, we dont. That's as far as we can go here.

There is nothing wrong with a little mystery.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

A potentially related topic.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=116408

 

[baywax]

Here's the details on "The Fifth-Dimension Catapult".

 

[CEL]

You draw hasty conclusions. I can easily postulate objects moving through air at multi-Mach speeds without making a somic boom.

An optical effect could do that.

I'm not suggesting that is the answer, I'm just suggesting you unnecessarily rule out possibilities.

If you read my previous post, I was referring to material objects. I suggested that the supposed UFO could be an electromagnetic phenomenon, since it was supposedly caught in radar screens.

 

[CEL]

Lets say you went back in time, told someone from the 1500's that in the future we could fly through air faster than sound could travel, communicate with people in another land using invisible rays, light heat and power every home with the motion of particles we can't even see and play a round of golf on the moon.

Try telling them to have an open mind.

Some things just plain don't know yet.

And if I told them that a material object could fly at high speed in the air without causing a shock wave, they would doubt me. And I doubt it now.
The fact is that some ideas, that once were thought crazy, are now real. Other ideas, that were once thought crazy, are still thought crazy.
They have laughed at Galileo and they have laughed at Bozo, the clown. This does not make Bozo a scientist.

 

[DaveC426913]

If you read my previous post, I was referring to material objects. I suggested that the supposed UFO could be an electromagnetic phenomenon, since it was supposedly caught in radar screens.

Yes. I caught that.

I'm was just pointing out that assuming any material object will have to create a sonic boom of the right size to be detected is a bit hasty.

A few decades ago I would have thought that any material object would have had to show up on radar too.

There's more'n one way to skin a cat.

 

[baywax]

Someone from the philosophical bend might say that a hologram could achieve radar stealth and hyper speeds.

This can also be done with a search light or projector.

Both of these fall into the realm of DaveC426913's "optical effect".

 

[baywax]

But try to explain this one. This is a personal experience I had while climbing. I made it to about 600 feet up this cliff and found a great ledge to stop and catch the breath and view.

The view was of the 21 miles of Georgia Straight between the mainland and Vancouver Island. It was summer and their were bugs flitting around. I'm sitting there enjoying the view of these distant gulf islands and there's this bug that keeps hovering at my eye level, kind of bugging me. So I focus on the bug to see what type it is.

It really wasn't a bug. It was some kind of craft that was completely translucent and about 50 meters in front of me. Not only was the vehicle translucent but so was its occupant. The thing kind of backed off a bit, and I just stared at it, not freaking, since most of my adrenaline had been spent on the way up the cliff. I really kept my eye on it, trying to make sure I wasn't seeing things or that it wasn't a helicopter or other phenomenon. But it was still there and it was still this little capsule that looked like it was made of clear Jello, as was the pilot.

So, with my eye on the thing, it started backing off, slowly, kind of dreamily or hypnotically, remaining at eye level, retreating all the way to the horizon where the water meets Vancouver Island, 21 miles away. And that retreat took the thing about 5 minutes.

Go figure, eh?

 

[Office_Shredder]

So you're telling me there was a translucent object that was barely visible from 50 meters out, and yet you were capable of tracking it from 20 miles away?

 

[Proton Soup]

low blood sugar does funny things

 

[baywax]

So you're telling me there was a translucent object that was barely visible from 50 meters out, and yet you were capable of tracking it from 20 miles away?

Yeah, like I said, I kept focus on it. And it was about the size of a chopper without the tail or the blades. Or more like a Chevy Aveo.

Considering that I was eating trailmix, my blood sugar levels were normal.

 

[DaveC426913]

But try to explain this one. This is a personal experience I had while climbing. I made it to about 600 feet up this cliff and found a great ledge to stop and catch the breath and view.

The view was of the 21 miles of Georgia Straight between the mainland and Vancouver Island. It was summer and their were bugs flitting around. I'm sitting there enjoying the view of these distant gulf islands and there's this bug that keeps hovering at my eye level, kind of bugging me. So I focus on the bug to see what type it is.

It really wasn't a bug. It was some kind of craft that was completely translucent and about 50 meters in front of me. Not only was the vehicle translucent but so was its occupant. The thing kind of backed off a bit, and I just stared at it, not freaking, since most of my adrenaline had been spent on the way up the cliff. I really kept my eye on it, trying to make sure I wasn't seeing things or that it wasn't a helicopter or other phenomenon. But it was still there and it was still this little capsule that looked like it was made of clear Jello, as was the pilot.

So, with my eye on the thing, it started backing off, slowly, kind of dreamily or hypnotically, remaining at eye level, retreating all the way to the horizon where the water meets Vancouver Island, 21 miles away. And that retreat took the thing about 5 minutes.

Go figure, eh?

Floater?

 

[gareth]

But try to explain this one. This is a personal experience I had while climbing. I made it to about 600 feet up this cliff and found a great ledge to stop and catch the breath and view.

The view was of the 21 miles of Georgia Straight between the mainland and Vancouver Island. It was summer and their were bugs flitting around. I'm sitting there enjoying the view of these distant gulf islands and there's this bug that keeps hovering at my eye level, kind of bugging me. So I focus on the bug to see what type it is.

It really wasn't a bug. It was some kind of craft that was completely translucent and about 50 meters in front of me. Not only was the vehicle translucent but so was its occupant. The thing kind of backed off a bit, and I just stared at it, not freaking, since most of my adrenaline had been spent on the way up the cliff. I really kept my eye on it, trying to make sure I wasn't seeing things or that it wasn't a helicopter or other phenomenon. But it was still there and it was still this little capsule that looked like it was made of clear Jello, as was the pilot.

So, with my eye on the thing, it started backing off, slowly, kind of dreamily or hypnotically, remaining at eye level, retreating all the way to the horizon where the water meets Vancouver Island, 21 miles away. And that retreat took the thing about 5 minutes.

Go figure, eh?

You say it was translucent, how did it appear to you're eye. Was it like the camo in "Predator". Also, how do you know it was ocuppied?

 

[gareth]

Floater?

no...it flushed

 

[baywax]

You say it was translucent, how did it appear to you're eye. Was it like the camo in "Predator". Also, how do you know it was ocuppied?

I just came off the street after checking out my vision at 50 yards. This happened some 10 or 12 years ago so my vision was probably better but I am pretty removed from the incident now. However, today I could see with clarity a Yaris (more like the shape of this thing I'm talking about) at 50 yards, on this darker, rainy morning. And I could see the fact that there was an occupant in the vehicle. So that wasn't a problem. The translucence apparently didn't stop my identifying this thing as something other than a bug or "floater" in my eye. It happened on a clear sunny day and that may have contibuted to the visibility. Plus, I am an illustrator and imaging professional so details don't escape me easily.

This thing occurred before I saw the 1987 CGI effects in Predator. I didn't see that until later like in the 90s. I can't say that I had seen any movies with that effect in it until after this happened. There was one show that seemed to pioneer the CGI effect of the "clear Jello" monster of the deep seas. I forget the title. But when I saw that show I thought the creators had possibly gotten the idea for the effect from the same thing I had seen.

But I've never seen anything like this. A very strange feeling came from it.

I've seen other unidentified objects but only at a distance and they're usually lights that move randomly and either too slowly or to fast to be a conventional aircraft. Plus they're never on a flight path and in remote areas of wilderness. Those incidents have happened to me maybe 5 times in my life.

EDIT: Actually I'm amazed at the complacency of people when there is a strange object in the sky. I was swimming once with a bunch of people and there was a white oblong object at about 25,000 feet to the south and above where we were. I'm looking at it.. you know, like the guy that instigates everyone to look up in the same direction.. and there it is, plain as the clear blue sky, a white thing not moving, or kind of drifting sideways a bit. I kept my eye on it the whole time but everyone else just kept on having fun, with disregard for this thing. I must have looked away for a second and looked back and presto... gone.•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*Congratulations America! That is something else with the election and all that. I have a feeling what you have done will bring more security to your country than a million "orange alerts".

 

[gareth]

I just came off the street after checking out my vision at 50 yards. This happened some 10 or 12 years ago so my vision was probably better but I am pretty removed from the incident now. However, today I could see with clarity a Yaris (more like the shape of this thing I'm talking about) at 50 yards, on this darker, rainy morning. And I could see the fact that there was an occupant in the vehicle. So that wasn't a problem. The translucence apparently didn't stop my identifying this thing as something other than a bug or "floater" in my eye. It happened on a clear sunny day and that may have contibuted to the visibility. Plus, I am an illustrator and imaging professional so details don't escape me easily.

This thing occurred before I saw the 1987 CGI effects in Predator. I didn't see that until later like in the 90s. I can't say that I had seen any movies with that effect in it until after this happened. There was one show that seemed to pioneer the CGI effect of the "clear Jello" monster of the deep seas. I forget the title. But when I saw that show I thought the creators had possibly gotten the idea for the effect from the same thing I had seen.

But I've never seen anything like this. A very strange feeling came from it.

I've seen other unidentified objects but only at a distance and they're usually lights that move randomly and either too slowly or to fast to be a conventional aircraft. Plus they're never on a flight path and in remote areas of wilderness. Those incidents have happened to me maybe 5 times in my life.


•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*


Congratulations America! That is something else with the election and all that. I have a feeling what you have done will bring more security to your country than a million "orange alerts".

It sounds really weird.

It's interesting that you say you saw a few different things throughout you're life, as this seems to be a trend with UFO witnesses. Maybe after the first you are more observant.

And yes, congratulations America.

 

[baywax]

It sounds really weird.

It's interesting that you say you saw a few different things throughout you're life, as this seems to be a trend with UFO witnesses. Maybe after the first you are more observant.

And yes, congratulations America.

That's probably correct. I don't know if witnesses see them more often because of their first incident or if we're biased toward seeing them or if the experience makes you look for more of them.

If "the trick to money is having some" (Stuart Wilde) then perhaps the trick to seeing a UFO is having seen one.