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Putting someone's name on a paper without both informing that person and asking permission is one of the most clear-cut types of ethical violations.
Cyrus said:My question still stands though: What right does an advisor have to sign your name to obligations you were not made aware of.
Vanadium 50 said:Andy, I am going to disagree - I don't think it's always clear cut.
Three examples that I have witnessed:
<snip>
I don't think it's always as clear as we would like.
vanesch said:This is a funny discussion! Most people try to get onto papers. Clearly Cyrus contributed to the paper by doing some data collection. If the professor was in a hurry submitting the paper, and given the fact that apparently Cyrus and that professor don't have a good relationship, then if the professor had to choose between putting Cyrus on the paper or leaving him off, without the possibility of asking him, then the obvious choice would be to put him on the paper. <snip>
Andy Resnick said:Key to every single statement is a phrase similar to "as well as a willingness to assume responsibility for the study", and that is precisely what Cyrus does not have.
Andy Resnick said:I have a forceful opinion on this subject because professional ethics is rarely formally taught, and it should be a part of graduate education although it is for many other professions- medicine, law, business (insert joke here), etc. The public respects scientific research *because* of the ethical guidelines- ethics is not there to make us feel good about ourselves, it is to ensure that I do not have to go back to first principles every single time I do an experiment.
vanesch said:<snip>
Individual actors in the field are expected to try to increase their visibility in the field by trying to be on as many publications as they can, and by having as many citations as they can. That's the expected social behavior within the scientific community.
<snip> someone who wanted to do you a favor
<snip>
Cyrus said:Let's say a professor you're working under puts your name as an author on a paper without your knowledge or concent. You're then told its past the deadline to remove your name from the paper and the paper gets submitted with your name on it anyways. (Not having contributed anything to it or have been aware). Is there grounds here to sue said professor for forgery or misuse of your name without concent?
FORGERY - The act of criminally making or altering a written instrument for the purpose of fraud or deceit; for example, signing another person's name to a check. To write payee's endorsement or signature on a check without the payee's permission or authority. The 'payee' of a check is the true owner or person to whom the check was payable.
No.Sheneron said:Haha its like trying to sue someone for giving you 500 dollars. There are only negative damages.
Mapes said:No, it's like someone pointing at you and saying, "That's my baby's father." I mean, the baby's beautiful and all, but...
DaveC426913 said:No.
It's like someone giving you credit for rescuing a little girl from a burning car when in fact it was the guy who left before the camera crew arrived.
An honest person does not take credit where no credit is due.
And realizing that someone has given you this unwarranted credit deliberately and knowingly is something that cannot be countenanced by an honest person.
Cyrus said:I think anyone that wants their name on a paper for collecting data is academically suspect.
Cyrus said:I think anyone that wants their name on a paper for collecting data is academically suspect.
DaveC426913 said:No.
It's like someone giving you credit for rescuing a little girl from a burning car when in fact it was the guy who left before the camera crew arrived.
vanesch said:There, *every* scientist that did just *anything* on the experiment gets on the authorlist of *all* the papers.
Vanadium 50 said:I don't think it's quite that bad (and it's the "just anything" part that I am objecting to). Most experiments have well defined and documented conditions for authorship, and if/how this is renewed. There's usually some minimum amount of "service work" that needs to be performed and periodically this is reset and people need to re-qualify (or stop being authors).
I think anyone that wants their name on a paper for collecting data is academically suspect.
Cyrus said:To be clear, I'm not getting a PhD, and I'm not trying to become a professor. I'm not here to publish as many papers as I can. The only thing I did was to collect data for a friend of mine because he asked me for my help. I agreed to collect the data for him. I find out more than half way into the deal that I'm supposed to be a co author and its too late.
I do not deserve to have my name on a paper for collecting data. What a joke. If I'm putting my name on any papers its going to be because I helped with some form of analysis.
My question still stands though: What right does an advisor have to sign your name to obligations you were not made aware of.
Pythagorean said:Collecting data right is absolutely noteworthy. Not only does it take a bit of competence, it also takes your genuine interest in doing it as accurately and correctly as you can (which can be very stressful depending on the method of data collection).
If someone feel's guilty about being given credit for data collection, I'd be more suspect that they did it with complacency and aren't sure of their accuracy...
But only because this is such an odd thing to throw a fit about.
Cyrus said:Because I didn't contribute to it. Not one thing. None.
Cyrus said:The only thing I did was to collect data
vanesch said:I don't think Cyrus is somehow feeling "guilty" for not "deserving" to be on the paper, but is rather pissed because he considers his name to be his "property" and nobody is entitled to mention it somewhere without his consent. Although strictly speaking, that's correct, I do find it a somewhat prima donna attitude in this particular case, where the use of his name is not in any way harmful (or at least, the one using it had absolutely no intention to harm, and even thought in doing him a favor).
Cyrus said:I'm a bit confused as to why you would say I'm having a prima donna attitude here. I'd like to point out that under no circumstances, should one EVER allow the use of their name by others without explicit permission. Even if it's for something good. (snip)
Bystander said:"Convention" in this country is that the permission is explicit in your agreement to do the work --- lesson for you for later in life --- you don't want your name used, you state it up front to the charity cases you pick up.