Isomorphism between groups of real numbers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the isomorphism between the additive group of real numbers (ℝ,+) and the multiplicative group of positive real numbers (ℝ_{>0},×). Participants explore the implications of this isomorphism, particularly in relation to the cardinality of the sets involved and the definition of bijections.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about defining a bijection between two uncountably infinite sets, questioning how this is possible.
  • Another participant proposes the isomorphism as the function f(x)=e^x, suggesting that it serves as a homomorphism between the two groups.
  • A third participant clarifies that a bijection exists if two sets have the same cardinality, indicating that being uncountably infinite does not preclude them from having the same cardinality.
  • A later reply reiterates the isomorphism, emphasizing the exponential function's properties and its role in demonstrating the relationship between the two groups.
  • Additional context is provided about the significance of the isomorphism in abstract algebra, with a personal anecdote about the realization of its importance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial confusion regarding bijections and cardinality, as some express uncertainty while others provide clarifications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the definitions of cardinality and bijections, but there are unresolved assumptions about the implications of these definitions in the context of infinite sets.

blahblah8724
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Apparently there is an isomorphism between the additive group (ℝ,+) of real numbers and the multiplicative group (ℝ_{>0},×) of positive real numbers.

But I thought that the reals were uncountably infinite and so don't understand how you could define a bijection between them?!

Thanks for your help!
 
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The isomorphism is f(x)=e^x.

But I thought that the reals were uncountably infinite and so don't understand how you could define a bijection between them?!

Could you explain more about what's bothering you??
 
There exist a bijection between two sets if and only if they have the same cardinality (that is, essentiallt, the definition of "cardinality"). The fact that two sets are both uncountably infinite doesn't mean they do not have the same cardinality.
 
blahblah8724 said:
Apparently there is an isomorphism between the additive group (ℝ,+) of real numbers and the multiplicative group (ℝ_{>0},×) of positive real numbers.

Yes, and you are already very familiar with it: It's just the exponential function y = e^x. For all real numbers a and b we have e^(a+b) = e^a * e^b. That fits the definition of a homomorphism. Then note that e*x is a bijection between the additive reals and the multiplicative positive reals.

Does that help in terms of seeing the concreteness and familiarity of this isomorphism?

ps -- That's why e^0 = 1. A homomorphism always maps the identity to the identity. I vividly remember being in my first abstract algebra class and slogging through homomorphisms and normal subgroups ... then they mentioned that exp and log are isomorphisms ... and I got this AHA moment -- this stuff is actually about something!

pps -- I see Micromass already mentioned e^x. Hopefully I was able to add some detail for the OP's benefit.
 
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